Speaking of Israel...

[Pannonian]

I think we should stop calling it colonizing which assumes that the invader also takes care of the locals see British Empire.

Settling also assumes that the land is part of Israel and not in a neighboring state.

I'm not sure what to call it but in light of Ukraine I would rename the settlers micro-annexation if trying to be PC. Outright invasion is what it actually is. So does a people have the right to spontaneously defend itself to a country invading its land?

Surely the Palestinians have as much right to eject invaders as Israel does.

It's Old Testament-style conquest. Take over an area using force, expel or exterminate the current population, destroy their culture, and replace with one's own people and culture. See the Canaanites for an example of how to deal with an existing settlement.

[Ja'chyra]

Erm, the existence of Israel isn't at risk. Nothing the Palestinians can do can put the existence of Israel at risk, except maybe pushing for a one state solution and then breeding like rabbits. Individual Israelis may be at risk, but not the Israeli nation. When those bombers blew up 3 tube trains and a bus in 2005, commuters were at risk, but not the British nation, nor even the city of London. I took the tube to St John's Wood for the Lord's Test a few days after that, and I never felt threatened.

Their nation is at risk because to show any weakness would be to see itself wiped out from it's neighbours, Israel is in the unenviable position of having to be strong at all times and that may influence the severity of it's reprisals. Not saying it's right just it's something to be considered.

Way too many, which is why I have opposed those wars from the very beginning.

NATO is critized every single day. Don't act like we live in a fantasy world where Israel is demonized and NATO glorified.

Still reading your own obscure meanings into other peoples posts I see

[Pannonian]

Their nation is at risk because to show any weakness would be to see itself wiped out from it's neighbours, Israel is in the unenviable position of having to be strong at all times and that may influence the severity of it's reprisals. Not saying it's right just it's something to be considered.

So what do you think of Moshe Feiglin's proposal for what to do with Gaza? Does that count as a threat to a nation's existence in your eyes? Or doesn't it count because it's Israel doing the threatening and Arabs being threatened? Let me remind you of his proposal.

1. Conquer Gaza using the IDF.
2. Expel all current inhabitants.
3. Level the place.
4. Rebuild and repopulate with Israelis.
5. Incorporate Gaza into a larger Israel.

Let me also remind you that Feiglin, in his last challenge against Netanyahu for leadership of the Likud party (and thus the Israeli government) was the only challenger to receive significant numbers of votes, effectively making him the no.2 in that party.

[HoreTore]

Still reading your own obscure meanings into other peoples posts I see

I may be reading too much into things, but it's definitely not obscure. In all honesty, it's a rare day when a new opinion comes around in an Israeli/Palestine-debate. It's usually just page after page of the same ol' talking points. Then we move to a different site and have the exact same debate all over again. Not saying that isn't fun or worthwhile...

Anyway, I took your comment to refer to a supposed unfair treatment of Israel. The argument goes that we ignore the evils done by, for example, NATO, while Israel is demonized for doing the same. If this is not the argument you were trying to make, could you care to elaborate on your point?

[LittleGrizzly]

Wouldn't the defending yourself argument go back to the very beginning of the conflict?

After all a few years into any conflict the argument can be made that the aggressor is defending himself against the defenders counter attacks...

[Papewaio]

How far back should we go?

[LittleGrizzly]

Well, hasn't the violence pretty much existed between the two sides since the mass Jewish immigration and the founding of Israel... always thought of that as the firing of the first shot myself. Although there have been quiet periods and noisy ones the situation has pretty much existed since then...

[Pannonian]

How far back should we go?

For the current cycle, I'd put it down to an Israeli act, namely the assassination of Rabin. That was the best chance since the formation of Israel of getting a peace that was broadly acceptable to both sides, with a realistic chance of it bedding into a lasting political reality. It went with Rabin.

[Papewaio]

It's Old Testament-style conquest. Take over an area using force, expel or exterminate the current population, destroy their culture, and replace with one's own people and culture. See the Canaanites for an example of how to deal with an existing settlement.

The original Israelis are probably descendents of Canaanites.