Speaking of Israel...

[Husar]

You're the one who said the colonial governing had much improved after atrocity, we had made such improvements before germany was even starting.

Obviously not improved enough if you kept ruining countries long after the improvements had been made. I also noted that according to wikipedia, the german reforms improved the german colonial system beyond the ones of other nations at the time.

When did I say you should have handed them over? I said you, Italy and the Belgians shouldn't have tried in the first place and left the area to be colonized by the professionals.

I already covered that. Not only was our improved colonial system better, I also already said that noone should have acquired colonies, not you, not France, not Belgium and not Germany. At least Germany managed to stick to that ideal until the last minute when the Kaiser (not king) unfortunately finally succumbed to British-invented ideals.

You do realize that I was joking when I said "we screwed you guys over to protect the world from mainland tyranny"?

That's inconsequential, I was already not entirely serious with my original statement blaming Britain and yet we're debating it now anyway.
Because even when I'm just joking, you British people cannot just leave a comment that does not praise you as exceptionally good.

Ok... I dont see how you could have gotten that from what I typed, but ok... Look capitalism is like a dog: fun, useful, loyal when you feed it and a menace when left undisciplined. However, it isn't the pet store's fault fido died when you let him chase cars.

You are aware that your own empire and the atrocities committed by it before any reforms also largely served monetary (capitalist) interests, right? So blaming us for not using capitalism correctly comes right back to you.
And your argument really makes little sense, capitalism is an ideology, you also didn't want the USSR export more communism and hope that people would use it in a good way. Also in this case it's more like the pet store trained fido to be an attack dog, then fido came back and tried to rob the store and now the store complains that fido is so aggressive.

[Greyblades]

I was lining up a joke that went along the lines of: capitalism is supposed to be used to provide someone to blame the atrocities on, to be able to say "That wasn't us, that was the evil buisnessmen! We had nothing to do with it, Honest!" with a straight face, thus deflecting blame and responsibility while reaping the profits.

I was going to say your failings was actually reforming instead of throwing the colonists under a bus and making a token effort to make things right until everyone forgot about it and you and your capitalist buddies can go on as normal.

Then I found out I am incapable of making something that cynical funny, even in the form of a sardonic faux-endorsment of kicking the can.

Then I started to realize how much of a paralel that supposed joke has with reality.

I am tired of this round.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I was lining up a joke that went along the lines of: capitalism is supposed to be used to provide someone to blame the atrocities on, to be able to say "That wasn't us, that was the evil buisnessmen! We had nothing to do with it, Honest!" with a straight face, thus deflecting blame and responsibility while reaping the profits.

I was going to say your failings was actually reforming instead of throwing the colonists under a bus and making a token effort to make things right until everyone forgot about it and you and your capitalist buddies can go on as normal.

Then I found out I am incapable of making something that cynical funny, even in the form of a sardonic faux-endorsment of kicking the can.

Then I started to realize how much of a paralel that supposed joke has with reality.

I am tired of this round.

In capitalism, humans exploit other humans. In socialism, it is the other way around.

[a completely inoffensive name]

British exceptional-ism should have died at the end of the 20th century. Are you people trying to keep the nationalistic tank filled with your cheap victories over latin american countries that can't keep their own currency from devaluing?

[Greyblades]

American exceptionalism has been running on full blast for 70 years with a nationalistic tank containing only your performance in two world wars (well, 1 and 1/4) a rebellion and a civil war. We had 4 world wars (counting napoleon and 7 year) an empire and several times where we went against the premier powers of the ages and fought them to a standstill. The falklands is not even a blip on the radar compared to the reserves we built up in the last 6 centuries, our nationalistic tank wont be empty any time soon.

We can only hope that such precident will inspire us to live up to the old accomplishments but with a modern standard of morality.

More likely we will continue doing what the rest of the western world is: growing ever more complacent, rotting on our faded laurels and comforting ourselves with tales of past generations as we are soon overtaken by asia and later africa.

[rory_20_uk]

I disagree.

America managed to massively fill its tank since it manages to see victory in everything and not only did it win WW1 and 2, but the Korean, the Cold and Iraq 1 and 2. Coupled with a child like belief in their own self righteousness it is a potent force.

The British went through this phase and came out of it having effectively lost WW1 and WW2 (Empire, prestige and world position) and declined ever since - with a large part of this by choice.

We also appear to have a fetish of applying the morals of today to the entire Empire and feeling oh so guilty about it all (yeah, India was a thriving democracy that we overturned and we didn't buy the black slaves off other black people and everywhere we left became so much fairer; the vote for men in the UK only arrived c. 1900 and life expectancy in Liverpool in 1880 was 18 years). Yes, Maggie managed to beat off a also ran country but frankly that shows how far we've fallen - getting all pleased we beat Argentina??!?

We're not complacent - we're pathetic.

We're mewing about multiculturalism and how we mustn't stand for anything unless that upsets someone somewhere - often here as we are more than happy for people to relocate and not want to naturalise.

Defence is nasty and best we don't spend money on that. We also managed to get health and safety legislation in to the armed forces. We are affectionately known as the "Borrowers" by the Americans since equipment levels are so pitiful that the troops are all but pitied. We act like someone with no self esteem that if we keep doing everything we're asked to they'll keep on liking us.

Doing business with anyone whose moral code is not as squeaky clean as we, for reasons lost on me, delude ourselves that we have as trade is also nasty - apart from the Financial Sector which we treat like a free trade zone and try not to monitor in the slightest.

We spend money on moving the deck chairs around our failing social welfare system which increases in both cost and %GDP for the last 50 years or so. Politicians of all stripes are so scared of loosing votes that all big decisions are overlooked (e.g. a property tax that increases uncapped as house prices increase or even that perhaps paying for everyone to become a graduate is not as important as paying for people to be able to do something useful) since it seems better to be the leader of a sinking ship than try to fix it.

[rory_20_uk]

In capitalism, humans exploit other humans. In socialism, it is the other way around.

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

[Greyblades]

Which is why i have said many times that only psychopaths and idiots allows the application of either exclusively.

Also if the result of "national humility" (or whatever you call the opposite of exceptionalism) is the self hatred and despair rory is exhibiting then you'll forgive me if I cling to national pride and to hell with all you who would put us down while hiding behind your own pitiful blood stained legacies. Britain's legacy isn't spotless but it is a damn sight more bearable than that of the US, and if they can find the pride to excell in thiers why the hell cant we?

[Husar]

Which is why i have said many times that only psychopaths and idiots allows the application of either exclusively.

Also if the result of "national humility" (or whatever you call the opposite of exceptionalism) is the self hatred and despair rory is exhibiting then you'll forgive me if I cling to national pride and to hell with all you who would put us down while hiding behind your own pitiful blood stained legacies. Britain's legacy isn't spotless but it is a damn sight more bearable than that of the US, and if they can find the pride to excell in thiers why the hell cant we?

First you say that one does not have to choose exclusively from extremes, then you say that because you do not like one extreme, you choose the other extreme?

[a completely inoffensive name]

How is Britain's legacy more bearable than the U.S? More people have directly died from British policies than U.S. policies by an order of magnitude.

Palestine is a war zone due to the British.
Large parts of Africa are a war zone due to the British and the rest is slowly improving due to Chinese investment.
India/Pakistan is an ongoing Cold War due to the British.

You can bring up dismantling slavery peacefully vs the US bloodshed all you want, but its spin at its best, ignorance at its worst. The U.K. industrialized first and it industrialized quick. You no longer needed slavery and thus you could easily eliminate it once you no longer depended on it. The U.S did not reach U.K. levels of industrialization until another 20 years after the Civil War.

Don't get me wrong, I still love you guys more than anyone.