Results 1 to 30 of 550

Thread: Speaking of Israel...

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    11,454

    Default Re: Speaking of Israel...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    The Palestinians are refugees from Libanon. Arabs are discriminated in Israel but that is a social issue, it's wrong but when put in perspective of the hate against Israel it becomess neglectable. They just hate jews and must kill them wherever they find them. Israel grabs no land, it is perfectly fine with what they got after just about the entire arab world attacked them, and the arabs lost because their camels routed. Are we going to reshape the map of Europe as well.
    Yeesh. Just to set things at closer to acknowledged fact in the interest of clear discussion....

    Some Palestinian Arabs lived, and still liv, in Lebanon. Many live in what is today Israel. Many live in refugee 'camps' in neighboring Jordan, as well as in the West Bank and Gaza which are -- to some extent at least -- under Palestinian authority. Quite a number of them come from families who vacated what is today Israel to get out of the way of the fighting -- at the request of Arab neighbors -- in 1948.

    Israel not only established itself without waiting for the official imprimatur of the UN, but also annexed territory they had acquired during the 1948 conflict that went past the proposed UN boundaries of 1947. Israel then acquired more land -- Gaza, the West bank, and Sinai -- after their successful offensive war in 1967. The Sinai was subsequently returned to Egyptian sovereignty, while most of Gaza and the West Bank were remanded to the Palestinian authority. Jerusalem, also acquired in 1967, has not been returned and has been designated by Israel as their capital. Feel free to argue that Israel may keep any of these lands by right of conquest (and even agree with Israel that they attacked in 1967 only to forestall an -- admittedly likely -- Arab assault), but do not live among the sidhe and continue to believe that "Israel grabs no land."

    Palestinians are not, in their entirety, haters of Jews and need not "kill them wherever they find them." I had at least one Palestinian in a class last year -- a conflict management class by-the-by -- and none of my Jewish students in that same class expressed any concern -- nor did they have to go to the student health center to get patched up.

    In short, stop stereotyping an entire culture in a couple of sentences. Your sniping at Palestinians has all the verifiable "truth" of any other stereotype -- like all those Dutch wearing wooden shoes and skating everywhere they go.
    Last edited by Seamus Fermanagh; 02-21-2015 at 02:13.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  2. #2
    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    5,812

    Default Re: Speaking of Israel...

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    (and even agree with Israel that they attacked in 1967 only to forestall an -- admittedly likely -- Arab assault)
    Was an Arab attack really a probable scenario then? I've read much about it but my impression was that it probably wasn't. The troops that Egypt sent into the Sinai were more for propaganda purposes than anything else. It was about visibly/theatricly retaking the land after it had been a UN administered buffer zone forcibly imposed on them after the Suez crisis, which unquestionably was an unprovoked attack by Israel (& friends). And the Arab performance during this war suggests that they were not just surprised but completely unprepared for any sort of war, unlike the Yom Kippur war several years later.

    In any case, it's hard to see why Palestinians should pay for the policies of their Arab neighbours.

  3. #3
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    11,454

    Default Re: Speaking of Israel...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec View Post
    Was an Arab attack really a probable scenario then? I've read much about it but my impression was that it probably wasn't. The troops that Egypt sent into the Sinai were more for propaganda purposes than anything else. It was about visibly/theatricly retaking the land after it had been a UN administered buffer zone forcibly imposed on them after the Suez crisis, which unquestionably was an unprovoked attack by Israel (& friends). And the Arab performance during this war suggests that they were not just surprised but completely unprepared for any sort of war, unlike the Yom Kippur war several years later.

    In any case, it's hard to see why Palestinians should pay for the policies of their Arab neighbours.
    I saw some history channel stuff that said that Egypt and Syria, in particular, were forward deploying air assets and were putting afv's through their "fresh tracks to be ready" maintenance. There is also some suggestion that efforts were being made to up morale prior to an assault. It is, of course, every bit as probable that this was part of the ongoing posturing common to that era. The general assessments that I have read -- admittedly from sources neutral to or even supportive of Israel -- suggest that an attack was likely. Nobody can prove that one had been ordered and the various Arab states publicly asserted that they had no such intention.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  4. #4
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    11,454

    Default Re: Speaking of Israel...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec View Post
    ...In any case, it's hard to see why Palestinians should pay for the policies of their Arab neighbours.
    Well, remember that my comment was geared towards reminding Frags that, whatever the justification, Israel could not really be thought of as unwilling to "grab" land.

    However, to point out one connection, many Palestinian Arabs vacated properties at the urging of their neighboring Arab states to get out of the line of fire while Israel was swept into the sea. The "right of return" concept, stemming from that time, has been and continues to be one of the issues entwined in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Whether or not this is a justifiable "why Palestinians should pay" often depends on the perspective of the assessor.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  5. #5
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Fortress
    Posts
    11,852

    Default Re: Speaking of Israel...

    So King Bibi, as some Israelis call him, paid a visit to Washington today. Currently in a rather long argument on Facebook after I had the audacity to say that Bibi does not speak for me (as a Jew).
    Anyone eager to jump in and have their say just send a PM! Havent seen a rabid Israel debate like this for a long long time.

    Last edited by Hooahguy; 03-03-2015 at 23:02.
    On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
    Visited:
    A man who casts no shadow has no soul.
    Hvil i fred HoreTore

  6. #6
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Athens, GA
    Posts
    7,588

    Default Re: Speaking of Israel...

    It's too bad more right-wing Israelis can't see how much this is hurting them. I have some friends in Israel who are on the right (some on the left too), and they were thrilled... Bibi's going to tell it like it is...

    Everybody knows Iran wants the bomb... the question is... how the do you stop them from getting it... when India, Pakistan and hell... North Korea (after a fashion) already have it. Hell, the Russians would LOVE to give it to them.

    There's no effective way of guaranteeing Iran doesn't achieve nuclear capability without continually destroying their infrastructure and blockading all traffic in and out. Not feasible.

    Better to try to control the conditions under which they enter the playing field and make them responsible parties at the table right up front. Make sure they know that these things have signatures and if Hamas lets a dirty bomb off in a Tel Aviv bus depot, there's an ICBM coming straight for Tehran.

    What's more... does Israel really want to reduce its chances to Republicans having an upper hand in Congress? Getting Israel's defense sucked into our quaqumire was a big mistake by Bibi, IMHO.
    Last edited by Don Corleone; 03-03-2015 at 23:43.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

    Member thankful for this post:



  7. #7
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    8,408
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Speaking of Israel...

    There are country specific nuclear signatures?
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  8. #8
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Fortress
    Posts
    11,852

    Default Re: Speaking of Israel...

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    There are country specific nuclear signatures?
    Not that I know of, but even the best always leave a trail. There will always be crumbs to follow.
    On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
    Visited:
    A man who casts no shadow has no soul.
    Hvil i fred HoreTore

  9. #9
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Athens, GA
    Posts
    7,588

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    There are country specific nuclear signatures?
    Not country specific, but I think they can trace the isotopes and therefore the refining sourcce.
    Last edited by Beskar; 03-06-2015 at 18:43.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

    Member thankful for this post:



  10. #10
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    11,454

    Default Re: Speaking of Israel...

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone View Post
    Not country specific, but I think they can trace the isotopes and therefore the refining sourcce.
    Correct. So spot on correct he had to post it twice.

    They can literally trace it by reactor and time batch based on slight variances in the trace isotopes.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

    Member thankful for this post:



  11. #11
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    15,677

    Default Re: Speaking of Israel...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    So King Bibi, as some Israelis call him, paid a visit to Washington today. Currently in a rather long argument on Facebook after I had the audacity to say that Bibi does not speak for me (as a Jew).
    Anyone eager to jump in and have their say just send a PM! Havent seen a rabid Israel debate like this for a long long time.

    Even if you are a card carrying member of their party and voted for them, the sign of a good democracy is when you say your PM or President doesn't speak for you.
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Pape for global overlord!!
    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
    Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

    Member thankful for this post:



Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO