Voting is Pointless because I have a strong-interest in Democracy

[Pannonian]

As for political systems, I'm still against FPTP. The possibility of coalitions makes it much easier for new parties to come up and even influence politics. Of course it still requires a population willing to vote for them and not vote on habit every time.

The FPTP system has led to some of the most tangible demonstrations of democracy in the UK, as people have teamed up and organised themselves to vote out particularly repulsive incumbents. The 1997 general election saw its first systematic use, as people, younger people especially, decided the Tories had to go, researched who was the most likely challenger in their constituency, and voted for them. The Tories lost 200 seats or so, with the Lib Dems doubling their total, and Labour picking up a landslide majority. A notably corrupt incumbent was replaced by an independent standing for anti-corruption (IIRC the first independent to be elected since the between-party Churchill in the 1930s), and the most likely replacement leader of the Tories went down against an openly gay Labour liberal. All of that was based on the FPTP system.

[Husar]

The FPTP system has led to some of the most tangible demonstrations of democracy in the UK, as people have teamed up and organised themselves to vote out particularly repulsive incumbents. The 1997 general election saw its first systematic use, as people, younger people especially, decided the Tories had to go, researched who was the most likely challenger in their constituency, and voted for them. The Tories lost 200 seats or so, with the Lib Dems doubling their total, and Labour picking up a landslide majority. A notably corrupt incumbent was replaced by an independent standing for anti-corruption (IIRC the first independent to be elected since the between-party Churchill in the 1930s), and the most likely replacement leader of the Tories went down against an openly gay Labour liberal. All of that was based on the FPTP system.

That doesn't change the fact that it has a tendency towards a two-party system where a lot of the political spectrum is not really represented anymore.

[Pannonian]

I'm wondering how to square this:

I have told Idaho several times that if he stands, I will run his campaign - I will go door to door and ask people to vote for him - I will run a campaign persuading people to register in the city to vote...

Idaho pointed out he can't afford the fee to enter as a candidate - that's a valid point but it's seperate from his main objection.

with this:

Am I just bitter because my voice isn't heard? Joking aside, no. I am a middle aged, middle class white man who earns well over the average salary. I am catered for very well by the status quo. I am not some downtrodden minority.

The deposit for standing for Parliament is £500. If Idaho earns well over the average salary, that shouldn't be too much of a stretch, and I'd imagine that he spends well over that for a holiday. There needn't be much in the way of running costs, as PVC has volunteered to run the campaign for him, and in any case all valid candidates are given some resources to help with their campaigns.

"In order to become a 'validly nominated' candidate, which means your name will appear on a ballot paper, you need to submit a completed set of nomination forms together with a deposit of £500 to the (Acting) Returning Officer before 4pm on the deadline day for nominations.

As a 'validly nominated' candidate you will be entitled to free postage for one election communication to electors in your constituency, as well as the use of certain rooms to hold public meetings."

[Idaho]

I'm wondering how to square this:

with this:

The deposit for standing for Parliament is £500. If Idaho earns well over the average salary, that shouldn't be too much of a stretch, and I'd imagine that he spends well over that for a holiday. There needn't be much in the way of running costs, as PVC has volunteered to run the campaign for him, and in any case all valid candidates are given some resources to help with their campaigns.

"In order to become a 'validly nominated' candidate, which means your name will appear on a ballot paper, you need to submit a completed set of nomination forms together with a deposit of £500 to the (Acting) Returning Officer before 4pm on the deadline day for nominations.

As a 'validly nominated' candidate you will be entitled to free postage for one election communication to electors in your constituency, as well as the use of certain rooms to hold public meetings."

I can afford to throw away £500 and can afford to waste a month on a campaign that won't go anywhere. But I'm not sure what the point is. I don't think my family will appreciate it. I don't want to be one of the 650 MPs. I don't want to be famous. I don't want press intrusion on my life. I don't see your point.

[HopAlongBunny]

Your point of view is actually anticipated and expected.
In a pluralist democracy all viewpoints compete in an open market; it is a feature of the system that some will chose not to participate.
In some versions of the theory, full participation is actually thought destructive of good governance.
Rejoice! All systems working as intended

[Pannonian]

I can afford to throw away £500 and can afford to waste a month on a campaign that won't go anywhere. But I'm not sure what the point is. I don't think my family will appreciate it. I don't want to be one of the 650 MPs. I don't want to be famous. I don't want press intrusion on my life. I don't see your point.

Maybe the problem is HIGNFY and its adherents who seek to mock and destroy without contemplating the worth of trying to build something constructive in its stead. There is always the local council if you're interested in contributing towards society without media intrusion into your private life.

[Idaho]

Maybe the problem is HIGNFY and its adherents who seek to mock and destroy without contemplating the worth of trying to build something constructive in its stead. There is always the local council if you're interested in contributing towards society without media intrusion into your private life.

We have been shaped into cynicism by close observation of our politicians. We have ceased to see them as great men answering a higher calling, and now see the truth - failed wannabes, skilled in blame dodging and band wagon jumping, with no more vision of the future than any other robber or scoundrel.

[Pannonian]

We have been shaped into cynicism by close observation of our politicians. We have ceased to see them as great men answering a higher calling, and now see the truth - failed wannabes, skilled in blame dodging and band wagon jumping, with no more vision of the future than any other robber or scoundrel.

And because this kind of attitude helps matters. One of the scandalous politicians of the 20th century, David Lloyd George, disgraced for selling peerages and for later dodgy views on the international scene, also kickstarted what would develop into the welfare state. Should I take your lead and despise him for his corruption? Or should I appreciate the social work which he did, the fruits of which are available to me even now?

There is also that alternative which I suggested, if you're so disgusted with existing politicians and reckon you can do better, but don't want media attention. Get involved with local government.

[a completely inoffensive name]

We have been shaped into cynicism by close observation of our politicians. We have ceased to see them as great men answering a higher calling, and now see the truth - failed wannabes, skilled in blame dodging and band wagon jumping, with no more vision of the future than any other robber or scoundrel.

When have we ever seen politicians as great men? I seem to recall the writer of the Declaration of Independence being called a sexual deviant with his slaves just a few decades later.

Politics have always been a dirty game that disgusts anyone with moral fiber. The citizens had to fight to even be let in on the game and I can't think of a time in any country when people were completely satisfied with their governing body.

Also, point of clarification to Rhy, I was not calling Idaho arrogant, and I apologize if it came across like that. I said that that particular view/philosophy seems arrogant, just as I can think Ayn Rand's view is disgusting and obnoxious without actually thinking my best friend (who loves Atlas Shrugged) is any of that.

[Papewaio]

We have been shaped into cynicism by close observation of our politicians. We have ceased to see them as great men answering a higher calling, and now see the truth - failed wannabes, skilled in blame dodging and band wagon jumping, with no more vision of the future than any other robber or scoundrel.

So are you saying that it too high a bar to beat?

Scrawling like a three year old tsk, tsk, tsk.