Rebel guidance.

[Vincent Butler]

This is the current situation...



... pretty messed up, huh?

I'm trying to blow up WRE because I want to know if, once destroyed, my settlements will revolt into Roman rebels still, or if they finally will revolt into grey rebels.

I'm having some difficulties managing my empire though, I know it's not that big but dudes... you have to keep under control each settlements on every turn, to see if everything is okay, then you have to re-train troops in frontline settlements (I have Samarobriva and Mediolanum constantly attacked by Alemanni and ERE). At the same time, being far from the capital is creating me some problems with bribe, I moved the capital from London to Northern Italy (Mediolanum) and Tara's pop is often unrested due to bribe.

Any tips?

Actually, when you wipe out WRE, the WRE rebels will become the new WRE. BI was hard, finances are more difficult than in RTW. I would advise lots of Heerbann to deal with ERE, preferably Francisca Heerbann, who are one of the top 5, and I think top 3, infantry units in the game. Axe and Sword Heerbann can hold their own against most Romans, and can beat most other troops. Saxon Hearth troops and Roman Comatatenses/Plumbatarii are better than Francisca Heerbann, and that is it, I think. By the way, in BI, First Cohort have better stats than standard Cohort. ERE trains Hippotoxotai (cav archers). WRE gets Bucelarii, who are crossbowmen who if I remember right are effective against armour. Roman cav is overall decent, nothing spectacular, though they do have some elite cav units. Oh, WRE gets an elite spear unit as well, for those who don't know.

[Matteo]

Actually, when you wipe out WRE, the WRE rebels will become the new WRE.

Do you mean those green? Well, if they don't get armies like WRE when revolting, that isn't a problem at all. Otherwise, look, Vincent... I want to show you what I was saying before. This is a fresh WRE settlement revolted...



... I made a copy & paste to show you the whole settlement's garrison, the cutted piece you see is that of my spy.

Now, I'm sieging the city with those tre armies you see, I post another screen...



... these three armies are full of elite units (Archers, normal Heerbann and Francisca's, Nobles and also various mercenaries). In that screen I'm attacking with only two of the three armies, and the counter says I have a chance of 9:7 victory, with the third army I get 10:7 and yet I can't win? I use auto-resolve because my PC is old, it could never go through it, especially with huge battles like this.

[Vincent Butler]

Yes, those Green. Green becomes Red. I hate to tell you, the good revolting armies are a problem in RTW as well, a revolt gets troops with gold experience and shield, and silver sword (sometimes). Don't know how to get around it, sometimes you will have to let them attack one of your cities and wipe them out on defense. That always works with good walls and garrisons. They won't keep that army totally together anyway. I guess the way around the PC being slow is use smaller units? I play with 80 man units, with a slow PC that may be what you have to do. I can do better, my computer is fast, but I am comfortable with 80. The first computer I played Rome on was an old Windows 98, we played with 40 man units. Ugh. I also like 80 because there were 80 men in a Roman maniple.
You say you can't win, I think Rome gets a boost in Autoresolve. I know in RTW an army with Amazon Chariots, at least in Hyperboria, can win with even 5:1 odds against them, if you autoresolve. So I think they gave Rome a boost in that regard as well. Well, I am sure there are cheat codes, though that would be a last resort. I think that army should be able to handle them. I notice no cav in your army, you might want more cav and less archers. It seems to me that archers are calculated in Autoresolve as melee infantry, though that is only based on observation. In the actual battle, you could shoot them to pieces. The Auxilia Palitinae are probably what are causing problems, those are their main elite units, barring the BI version of Arcani, I don't remember what they are called.

[Matteo]

I'll try to reduce units, then.

About elite revolts, I've never seen like these one (it's always so, every city from Avaricum below when revolts gets those damned fucking best troops), I've also played Rome. In England, but also in Samarobriva, when population revolt, I manage to defeat them with just 5 peasant units and 5 archers units. How is it possible that I have to use such many troops to fight a shit empire which is in ruins by now?

P.S.: I have also cavs in those three armies, Nobles and Raiders.

[ReluctantSamurai]

About elite revolts, I've never seen like these one

Best solution is to not let a city get to a revolt stage in the first place. Several suggestions....

A city with population of 2k-6k rarely, if ever, needs to be exterminated upon capture. There is plenty enough time to put your own buildings/temples in place to reduce culture penalties. A city between 6k-12k is about the same...best to occupy when captured. A city between 12k-24k is where things start to get dicey. If the governors palace has already reached maximum, best to exterminate and jack the taxes to very high to slow down growth. Choose the best Law&Order temple you have (if it's better than the native one), and put in place a governor with the highest number of influence laurettes. Doesn't matter his management skills...it's influence that keeps unrest in check. Use peasants or some other local unit (Town Watch, etc) as garrison as this helps with unrest. When the population starts to get large again, begin to reduce taxes until it gets to the lowest level.

More often than not, the population will reach a point where it stops growing. This is your target...what I call ZPG (Zero Population Growth). If this happens at 75% loyalty or higher, you will never get a revolt in that city ever again. That little orange guy on the city campaign tag is your best friend In R1 I can get to ZPG in virtually every city I own with almost every playable faction...and without the need for a city manager. Revolts are a pain in the a$$ unless you like the "Butcher" moniker for your faction leader.

ZPG is not an exact science, and it can be puzzling to accomplish at first, as Vincent has discovered. But to me it removes one of the more frustrating aspects of the game (revolts), so you can concentrate on having fun instead of threatening to toss your computer out the window

[Vincent Butler]

Best solution is to not let a city get to a revolt stage in the first place. Several suggestions....

A city with population of 2k-6k rarely, if ever, needs to be exterminated upon capture. There is plenty enough time to put your own buildings/temples in place to reduce culture penalties. A city between 6k-12k is about the same...best to occupy when captured. A city between 12k-24k is where things start to get dicey. If the governors palace has already reached maximum, best to exterminate and jack the taxes to very high to slow down growth. Choose the best Law&Order temple you have (if it's better than the native one), and put in place a governor with the highest number of influence laurettes. Doesn't matter his management skills...it's influence that keeps unrest in check. Use peasants or some other local unit (Town Watch, etc) as garrison as this helps with unrest. When the population starts to get large again, begin to reduce taxes until it gets to the lowest level.

More often than not, the population will reach a point where it stops growing. This is your target...what I call ZPG (Zero Population Growth). If this happens at 75% loyalty or higher, you will never get a revolt in that city ever again. That little orange guy on the city campaign tag is your best friend In R1 I can get to ZPG in virtually every city I own with almost every playable faction...and without the need for a city manager. Revolts are a pain in the a$$ unless you like the "Butcher" moniker for your faction leader.

ZPG is not an exact science, and it can be puzzling to accomplish at first, as Vincent has discovered. But to me it removes one of the more frustrating aspects of the game (revolts), so you can concentrate on having fun instead of threatening to toss your computer out the window

I only exterminate large/huge cities, as a rule. On smaller ones I try enslaving, if public order is red or blue. Now I garrison large anyway, typically a full army, which for me is ten to fifteen units, depending on region and faction. I like to be able to hold off an attack or defeat a revolting army. Also, I pull armies out of my towns to create a steady supply of armies, so I like to have enough to do that. Greece and Rome are the main places I do that. Greece usually does not have full armies unless I am expecting attack. But for me, money making is more important than public order, I can handle the public order for the most part, it is only a few cities that regularly riot, and I can deal with that. Another tip, if you have a plague in a town near an angry town, train a unit, can even be an agent, in the plague town and move him into the unhappy town. The plague will help reduce population and hence increase public order. Not exactly ethical, though.

[Matteo]

WRE is at the bottom of the barrell, as you can see from the screen...



... now it's emerging a big deal: incomes. I'm going more and more down, every city, except for those in UK, is down economically. I saw the details and the problem comes from upkeep armies: I had about 300000 dinars, look at the screen, I lost about 200000 within 15 turns. I have Hunters (archers), Nobles and Francisca Heerbann as garrison, also Paladins in some cities, because I'm always worried about the moment they'll revolt. You have seen what kind of revolts WRE gets, so I couldn't win if I leave only peasants and archers, I think you all agree with me about this.



So, there are some cities which have reached ZPG, do you suggest me to put archers and peasants there to pay off costs? Mainly because in England my four settlements have all peasants and archers, and they never go down indeed.



P.S.: Shouldn't Carthago be one of the richest city of the game? At least in RTW it was so... why I get just 549 from it?

[Vincent Butler]

Well, I think that campaign is stuck with the large units. Anyway, you seem to have done well so far with Autoresolve. What kind of processor are you running? I used to run RTW and BI on a standard Macbook running Snow Leopard. 2.1 Gigahertz processor, 1 GB RAM (I think). That works for medium sized units. Now just an idea, I don't know if it is a factor. I wonder if the amount of the previous owner's buildings affects the quality of the revolting troops? Rome seems to get a boost while fighting. Sorry, didn't see the Cav. An idea to deal with the troops, and it works better with RTW phalanx than BI Spear Wall, get them to come down a narrow corridor such as a bridge. Schiltrom units work very well for this, though Franks can't form Schiltrom. Great strategy against hordes, I know, they funnel right onto your spears (or whatever you are carrying, works best with spearmen at a bridge or gap in the walls.) And don't try it with your levy spearmen, not against those good armies. Use your heerbann. Sometimes you just have to let the good armies hold sway till you get a better army to deal with them, especially after they have split up.

[Matteo]

Best solution is to not let a city get to a revolt stage in the first place. Several suggestions....

A city with population of 2k-6k rarely, if ever, needs to be exterminated upon capture. There is plenty enough time to put your own buildings/temples in place to reduce culture penalties. A city between 6k-12k is about the same...best to occupy when captured. A city between 12k-24k is where things start to get dicey. If the governors palace has already reached maximum, best to exterminate and jack the taxes to very high to slow down growth. Choose the best Law&Order temple you have (if it's better than the native one), and put in place a governor with the highest number of influence laurettes. Doesn't matter his management skills...it's influence that keeps unrest in check. Use peasants or some other local unit (Town Watch, etc) as garrison as this helps with unrest. When the population starts to get large again, begin to reduce taxes until it gets to the lowest level.

More often than not, the population will reach a point where it stops growing. This is your target...what I call ZPG (Zero Population Growth). If this happens at 75% loyalty or higher, you will never get a revolt in that city ever again. That little orange guy on the city campaign tag is your best friend In R1 I can get to ZPG in virtually every city I own with almost every playable faction...and without the need for a city manager. Revolts are a pain in the a$$ unless you like the "Butcher" moniker for your faction leader.

I've already reached ZPG with some cities, but when you have cities with all types of buildings built, a good garrison and lowest taxes, and unrest doesn't calm, what do you do?

I wonder if the amount of the previous owner's buildings affects the quality of the revolting troops? Rome seems to get a boost while fighting. Sorry, didn't see the Cav. An idea to deal with the troops, and it works better with RTW phalanx than BI Spear Wall, get them to come down a narrow corridor such as a bridge. Schiltrom units work very well for this, though Franks can't form Schiltrom. Great strategy against hordes, I know, they funnel right onto your spears (or whatever you are carrying, works best with spearmen at a bridge or gap in the walls.) And don't try it with your levy spearmen, not against those good armies. Use your heerbann. Sometimes you just have to let the good armies hold sway till you get a better army to deal with them, especially after they have split up.

I don't know if the previous buildings affect the quality of revolts, maybe they do... for istance, if there is a forge, some rebels units may get better weapons. But why this doesn't happen in all my cities? Every single city is upgraded to the maximum, but why in Londinium or Samarobriva or Tara I can win rebels (even they outnumber me) with 5 peasants units and 5 archers?

[ReluctantSamurai]

I've already reached ZPG with some cities, but when you have cities with all types of buildings built, a good garrison and lowest taxes, and unrest doesn't calm, what do you do?

In R1 some settlements have a permanent, built-in, unrest. Jerusalem, Tarsus, Patavium, and Londinium are a few examples. It's hard coded and nothing you can do about it except deal with it. You can be suffering subterfuge attacks from spies, especially in a newly conquered settlement. First thing I always do when capturing a new settlement is hire several spies. If possible, I send a family member with high security traits (like the faction leader/heir) to be the governor for several turns. And of course, a good assassin to eliminate any enemy spies that are detected. Suffering from subterfuge attacks happens far more often than you think. I'd estimate that 50% of all newly captured settlements, have at least one spy embedded. I've captured enemy capitals where I had to eliminate 3 or 4 spies before things calmed down....

Make sure your governor, if you have one, doesn't have traits that add to unrest or decrease law&order. A governor that adds 3 (30%) to unrest needs to leave town immediately! Don't overlook having local militia like peasants or town watch type units as part of your garrison. They have a calming influence (don't remember the exact numbers) on unrest.

I don't know if the previous buildings affect the quality of revolts, maybe they do

They most definitely do. The more developed the barracks are, and the more upgrades available from blacksmith's, foundry's, temples, etc, the more likely revolting troops will be of higher quality with better weapons/armor.

But why this doesn't happen in all my cities?

Composition of revolting armies is randomly selected. If you redo a turn, as an experiment, just before an impending revolt, you'll see differing army composition and quality. Local merc pools and the number and type of army barracks also affects the composition, but the biggest variable is chance