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Thread: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

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    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    This is unbelievable we have gypsies building palaces in Romania courtesy of the DWP yet a guy that served his country is left to starve alone in his flat after his Jobseekers Allowance was revoked.


    From the Mirror article:


    "When David died he had just £3.44 to his name, six tea bags, a tin of soup and an out-of-date can of sardines. His electricity card was out of credit meaning the fridge where he should have kept his insulin chilled was not working.

    A coroner also found he had no food in his stomach.

    A pile of CVs for job applications were found near David’s body."


    Heads better roll because of this. If it was up to me I would have Ian Duncan Smith on some sort of manslaughter charge because it fits the bill of criminal gross negligence in his duty. One of the most disgraceful things I have ever seen. Guys were setting themselves on fire back in Tunisia for far less when they kicked off their Arab Spring. But sadly people in this country will be too apathetic to do anything about it.

    When are people going to stop buying into the lame mantra used by all the parties that our unemployed are all just scroungers? The reality is that there are always dozens of unemployed people for every vacancy... they can ride about on their bike all they like just like that moron Tebbit said but that is never going to change the fact that no matter how hard people look for work, the demand for them isn't there.

    The scapegoating of the unemployed is sickening it and now people are dying because of it. Things have to change but they won't. What else can I say?
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    You need to smoke less Daily Mail.

    This will turn out to be his untreated PTSD, and not really about the fact that he lost JSA.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Had JSA revoked ---> no money to power fridge ---> nowhere to store insulin ---> couldn't take insulin ---> died

    No need for PTSD the chain of events looks clear enough at this stage.

    Also I'm not a fan of the Daily Mail I just happened to see this on the front page when I was browsing the morning papers.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    He wasn't a British soldier, he was an ex-one who served for 2 years. He was last in the armed forces 30+ years ago, leaving by 1980's, then he worked at BT for 16 years since, the rest of the time caring for sick mother until she moved into a carehome, then on JSA. The use of 'British Soldier' is emotive, non-representative and not really that relevant. This wasn't someone back from Iraq then simply got abandoned, he has been out of the system for 3 decades.

    It looked like this was a possible suicide as well, quoted from the article: "I think he just gave up." This is very unfortunate as it seems he wasn't getting the help and assistance he was entitled too. There are many organisations and charities which do help carers and even though having to return to work. There are various other 'soup kitchens' and free clinics which he could get in touch with if desperate.

    It seems that a long list of very unfortunate incidents led to this persons death. There are many factors involved and opportunities missed.
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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Ex-soldier, whatever, doesn't matter if he served now or in the past. He served in Belfast at the height of the Troubles.

    But according to Mr. Duncan Smith and his Job Center cronies this guy was just a scrounger who deserved to have his JSA taken away.

    As somebody pointed out elsewhere, the reason he didn't take his insulin may well have been because if he didn't have any food to take before it, then the insulin could be lethal. Soup kitchens are not handy for everyone finding one is not like popping down to the shops, some people have to walk for hours to get to them. If you are struggling with diabetes you might not be up to that.

    'Support groups' and 'soup kitchens', what am I hearing? That big society stuff is all garbage, it is the governments duty to provide a basic level of support so that people don't die of starvation/lack of basic medical care.

    You can't get around the fact that the system is failing miserably.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    'Support groups' and 'soup kitchens', what am I hearing? That big society stuff is all garbage, it is the governments duty to provide a basic level of support so that people don't die of starvation/lack of basic medical care.

    You can't get around the fact that the system is failing miserably.
    Well, it is not that the system is failing, there is no political will to actually engage with the system as many people see it as toxic, due as you mentioned with your very own words "gypsey palaces" and even with the 'I don't vote' topic, you bring up here "But sadly people in this country will be too apathetic to do anything about it."

    There are real world solutions to get around these issues, may not like them all, but they are in existence.

    I could spend hours talking about how I believe there should be better funding for the welfare state, NHS and other public services. But political opinions are not what are really being discussed.
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    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    As Liam Burns said "There's no more money left!"

    So who is at fault?

    Also Tebbit never said "get on yer bike" any more than Thatcher said "No such thing as society".

    You been brainwashed without knowing it.

    I could spend hours talking about how I believe there should be better funding for the welfare state, NHS and other public services
    They've had £billions chucked at it since '97. Guess what? An 85% increase in managers.
    Last edited by InsaneApache; 07-28-2014 at 16:47.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

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    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiaexz View Post
    Well, it is not that the system is failing, there is no political will to actually engage with the system as many people see it as toxic, due as you mentioned with your very own words "gypsey palaces" and even with the 'I don't vote' topic, you bring up here "But sadly people in this country will be too apathetic to do anything about it."
    If people are dying because of the current system then it is failing. End of.

    Fact 1: Gypsies are building palaces with DWP money.
    Fact 2: Ordinary Britons are dying because the DWP won't give them any money.

    The system is clearly broke. I disagree that there is no political will to engage it, because there seems to be plenty of political will to cut it down piece by piece.

    I also don't get why my complaints about apathy conflict about what I said in the "I don't vote" thread. Like I said do other things for my 'civic engagement'.

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    As Liam Burns said "There's no more money left!"

    So who is at fault?
    I'm not here to defend the entire welfare state, I am just saying that I find it disgraceful that this individual was left to die like that. Surely you would at least agree with that?

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    Also Tebbit never said "get on yer bike" any more than Thatcher said "No such thing as society".

    You been brainwashed without knowing it.


    "I grew up in the thirties with an unemployed father. He didn't riot, he got on his bike and looked for work and he kept looking till he found it."


    Now unless he just felt like telling a story for nostalgia's sake, I'm pretty sure he's implying that the unemployed should indeed get on their bike just like his father did, and by extension, if they fail to find work then it is their fault for not trying hard enough.

    Not only is that argument wrong, it is irrelevant. Because if everybody on the dole was to suddenly get on their bike and do everything in their power to find work, then the level of unemployment would not change at all. This is because of the fundamental fact that everybody keeps forgetting - there are always far more jobless than there are job vacancies. It is just the nature of our economy - full employment is no longer needed to fuel it.

    So if we, as you suggest, truly can't afford to pay for the unemployed masses, then our only two option are to either let them all die of in some sort of Malthusian check, or reform the economy so that they gain employment. I know which option I would go for...
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    This is unbelievable we have gypsies building palaces in Romania courtesy of the DWP yet a guy that served his country is left to starve alone in his flat after his Jobseekers Allowance was revoked.
    You'd get more sympathy if you didn't open with blatant racism and Daily Mail-type exaggeration and misinformation.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    Had JSA revoked ---> no money to power fridge ---> nowhere to store insulin ---> couldn't take insulin ---> died

    No need for PTSD the chain of events looks clear enough at this stage.

    Also I'm not a fan of the Daily Mail I just happened to see this on the front page when I was browsing the morning papers.
    Your JSA isn't meant to power your fridge - your Housing Benefit is.

    I'm not saying this guy wasn't failed by the Welfare State but the fact is that if he'd gone to the Citizen's Advice and said "I'm diabetic and can't afford to power my fridge" they would have found a way to fix it.

    They go through fazes of putting up posters and running TV adverts saying "check you have the benefits you are entitled to" and people don't listen - including me.

    Every years these same papers go through contortions about how some widow's surviving on £70 a week - and nobody listens when it's pointed out that she's still only drawing 50% of a married pension, instead of a widows pension.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    Your JSA isn't meant to power your fridge - your Housing Benefit is.

    I'm not saying this guy wasn't failed by the Welfare State but the fact is that if he'd gone to the Citizen's Advice and said "I'm diabetic and can't afford to power my fridge" they would have found a way to fix it.

    They go through fazes of putting up posters and running TV adverts saying "check you have the benefits you are entitled to" and people don't listen - including me.

    Every years these same papers go through contortions about how some widow's surviving on £70 a week - and nobody listens when it's pointed out that she's still only drawing 50% of a married pension, instead of a widows pension.
    I would still maintain that this is a failing of the system rather than incompetence on behalf of the claimants, though*.

    Isolation, emptiness and apathy are powerful states of being, ones it's very hard to break out of. Our welfare states are poor at reaching out to those. But how to enable it to do so? Hell if I know. It's a lot more complex than the ol' "throw more money at the failing system"-quickfix.


    Edit:
    *in the extreme cases, that is. I doubt you failed to pick up your claim due to apathy, but my guess is that the one in the OP did.
    Last edited by HoreTore; 07-28-2014 at 23:16.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    I would still maintain that this is a failing of the system rather than incompetence on behalf of the claimants, though*.

    Isolation, emptiness and apathy are powerful states of being, ones it's very hard to break out of. Our welfare states are poor at reaching out to those. But how to enable it to do so? Hell if I know. It's a lot more complex than the ol' "throw more money at the failing system"-quickfix.


    Edit:
    *in the extreme cases, that is. I doubt you failed to pick up your claim due to apathy, but my guess is that the one in the OP did.

    Oh, no, the system failed - but there's a huge gap between "no help" and "failed to offer help".

    In my case, I was living at home and working on a PhD - under the impression that disqualified me from JSA - it didn't.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    ...To fix it you need big government to take an inward look and fix itself. How often does that happen?
    Whenever a crisis hits. Short of that, not so much.
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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    Oh, no, the system failed - but there's a huge gap between "no help" and "failed to offer help".

    In my case, I was living at home and working on a PhD - under the impression that disqualified me from JSA - it didn't.
    Completely agreed.

    I could've claimed a month or two of unemployment benefits as well some years back, but I too wrongly assumed I wasn't qualified... But considering all the benefit-scrounging and outright theft I did in my conscript year, I'd say me and the state are about even.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Now unless he just felt like telling a story for nostalgia's sake, I'm pretty sure he's implying that the unemployed should indeed get on their bike just like his father did, and by extension, if they fail to find work then it is their fault for not trying hard enough.
    That's what people did back then. They went where the work was. Or starved.

    A couple of years ago when I researched my family tree they went all over the place. Great granny was born in Yorkshire, Grandad in south Lincolnshire, mam and dad in Manchester, auntie in Scotland (building the Forth Bridge?)......

    You can argue things are different now but are they? In 1978 I went to work at Hunterston B(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunters..._power_station) just south of Largs in Ayeshire. I went because I needed a job so I could go out clubbing and getting drunk and chasing skirt. Important stuff.

    Oh I lived in Manchester at the time so I had to move up there, luckily I'd lived in Saltcoats a couple of years earlier so I knew the area.
    Last edited by InsaneApache; 07-29-2014 at 09:33.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Pfft. I spend over 3 hrs a day commuting.
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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio View Post
    Pfft. I spend over 3 hrs a day commuting.
    If I'd commuted it would have taken nearly 9 hours to get there, not really viable.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    They went where the work was. Or starved.
    Or rioted. Or turned to crime. Or sold their bodies. Or beat up the jews.

    The 30's was one of our darkest decades, don't try to pass it off as a golden age of righteousness.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Or rioted. Or turned to crime. Or sold their bodies. Or beat up the jews.

    The 30's was one of our darkest decades, don't try to pass it off as a golden age of righteousness.
    I never said it was righteous. You're putting words in my mouth. It certainly wasn't a golden age. My grandmother lost 7 children, 5 in childbirth. My mam is a surviving twin.

    It's just how things were back then when my dad was a kid.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    I never said it was righteous. You're putting words in my mouth. It certainly wasn't a golden age. My grandmother lost 7 children, 5 in childbirth. My mam is a surviving twin.

    It's just how things were back then when my dad was a kid.
    You gave two options, both of which implied righteousness. Especially since it's contrasted with "kids these days..."

    Fact of the matter is that your parent's generation were a bunch of thiefs, prostitutes and jew-bashers. Far fewer of todays kids turn to crime than they did back in the 30's.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Fact of the matter is that your parent's generation were a bunch of thiefs, prostitutes and jew-bashers. Far fewer of todays kids turn to crime than they did back in the 30's.
    You really are a vile individual aren't you?

    My dads elder brother was one of the first British troops to liberate Belsen. I suppose that's where he beat the shit out of the jews eh?
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    If I'd commuted it would have taken nearly 9 hours to get there, not really viable.
    And I've moved from Perth to Sydney to keep employed.

    The quip about Sydney is that everyone has a part time job: commuting.
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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    You really are a vile individual aren't you?
    Don't you have some David Icke to read?

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    My dads elder brother was one of the first British troops to liberate Belsen. I suppose that's where he beat the shit out of the jews eh?
    ....And his best buds joined up with Mosley's gang of awesome.

    Yes, we were all better off back in the day. Kids these days are worthless.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    That's what people did back then. They went where the work was. Or starved.

    A couple of years ago when I researched my family tree they went all over the place. Great granny was born in Yorkshire, Grandad in south Lincolnshire, mam and dad in Manchester, auntie in Scotland (building the Forth Bridge?)......

    You can argue things are different now but are they? In 1978 I went to work at Hunterston B(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunters..._power_station) just south of Largs in Ayeshire. I went because I needed a job so I could go out clubbing and getting drunk and chasing skirt. Important stuff.

    Oh I lived in Manchester at the time so I had to move up there, luckily I'd lived in Saltcoats a couple of years earlier so I knew the area.
    I can't honestly say what things were like then, so I can't make a fair comparison. Things are very different in general now though. My grandad (mum's side) had no qualifications at all yet he bought a nice tenement house no problem working as an ordinary shipbuilder, never had to worry about being out of work. I'm starting to think I will never own a house or have a stable job despite having a First Class Honours degree. I've done unpaid internships, several low-level jobs... but as far as I can see nothing is going to change. Where would I go if I was to follow the work? The unemployed are everywhere all over the UK.

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    You'd get more sympathy if you didn't open with blatant racism and Daily Mail-type exaggeration and misinformation.
    Racism? Nope, sorry but that's not gonna wash, I'm not getting shut down because you are throwing such words about.

    Welfare tourism is a real problem and because of the nature of what it is, obviously it is not going to be native Britons doing it (in Britain, anyway). You've got your head in the clouds if you don't think this is happening.


    Gypsies on Benefits & Proud


    "We follow father-of-three Ion and five fellow immigrants as they travel to the UK in January 2014, just days after work restrictions on Romanians were lifted. Ion is shameless about why he's moving to London: he wants to make £40,000 from benefits to help him build a new house for his family, back in the rural Romanian gypsy village where he grew up."

    So the British state provides him with a £40,000 new house (and in gypsy village in Romania that's a big house), while an ex-soldier starves to death alone in his flat.

    Its not on.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  25. #25
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    Racism? Nope, sorry but that's not gonna wash, I'm not getting shut down because you are throwing such words about.
    Quit whining. Racism is what racism is, and it's exactly what you're doing: putting different worth on people based on their origins. I do note that you 'missed' the comments on misinformation and exaggeration.

    Further, you're building a simple welfare queen type argument. This is the exact type of argument which has created the current system that you dislike. Keep doing it, and watch as the parts of the welfare state you actually like whittles away.

    In conclusion, I do not see how it picking on one group of destitute people will advance the cause of another destitute people.
    Last edited by HoreTore; 07-29-2014 at 14:03.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  26. #26
    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    I can't honestly say what things were like then, so I can't make a fair comparison. Things are very different in general now though. My grandad (mum's side) had no qualifications at all yet he bought a nice tenement house no problem working as an ordinary shipbuilder, never had to worry about being out of work. I'm starting to think I will never own a house or have a stable job despite having a First Class Honours degree. I've done unpaid internships, several low-level jobs... but as far as I can see nothing is going to change. Where would I go if I was to follow the work? The unemployed are everywhere all over the UK.



    Racism? Nope, sorry but that's not gonna wash, I'm not getting shut down because you are throwing such words about.

    Welfare tourism is a real problem and because of the nature of what it is, obviously it is not going to be native Britons doing it (in Britain, anyway). You've got your head in the clouds if you don't think this is happening.


    Gypsies on Benefits & Proud


    "We follow father-of-three Ion and five fellow immigrants as they travel to the UK in January 2014, just days after work restrictions on Romanians were lifted. Ion is shameless about why he's moving to London: he wants to make £40,000 from benefits to help him build a new house for his family, back in the rural Romanian gypsy village where he grew up."

    So the British state provides him with a £40,000 new house (and in gypsy village in Romania that's a big house)
    , while an ex-soldier starves to death alone in his flat.

    Its not on.
    Are we even allowed to call gypsies gypsies, like your link does?

    I think "EU-Travelers" is the correct PC term these days. I might be wrong.

    But, yes of course everyone with half a brain will quickly realize that gypsies tend to contribute mainly on the negative side when it comes to the building of a functional society.

    Gypsies are a resistance-culture. They themselves clearly state that they don't want to adhere to the western world nation building agenda. As such (recistance culture), they will not adhere to other cultures. Thus any notion of nation building with gypsies along is a worthless effort.

    Not to be racist or anything. It's only that what I just wrote is obviously racist, and also correct.

    Racism + correct = mind blown for the majority. And that's addressed to you who read this, not Rhyf.

  27. #27

    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    I really am confused by how most people use the word "race".

    Quote Originally Posted by Horetore
    putting different worth on people based on their origins.
    For instance: is race equivalent to upbringing?

    However race is used, I'm fairly sure congenitality is part of its sense, somewhere along the line.

    So be more careful, guys. If we need new or different terms for what we are specifically talking about, then let's acknowledge that rather than resorting to a certain word simply for its strong social and historical charge and salience.
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  28. #28
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Quit whining. Racism is what racism is, and it's exactly what you're doing: putting different worth on people based on their origins. I do note that you 'missed' the comments on misinformation and exaggeration.
    I 'missed' nothing I gave you a clear example of a gypsy claiming tens of thousands of pounds to build a big family home back in his Romanian village. So my OP had no "misinformation and exaggeration". I am also not putting different worth on people based on their origins, I have no idea where you are getting such an idea from. My point is you should only be claiming benefits from a society if you intend of being a functioning part of it. As an admitted welfare tourist, this guy was just getting his money then going back to Romania to spend it. It's totally different from a native Briton trying to build a life here.

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Further, you're building a simple welfare queen type argument. This is the exact type of argument which has created the current system that you dislike. Keep doing it, and watch as the parts of the welfare state you actually like whittles away.
    Welfare tourists are destroying confidence in the current system. We could debate their actual financial impact, but at a more visceral level the behaviour of some of them is making tax-paying Britons lose their trust in the welfare state. But politicians are so PC/bound by EU law that they end up making ordinary Britons pay for this rather than the welfare tourists themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    In conclusion, I do not see how it picking on one group of destitute people will advance the cause of another destitute people.
    I would like Romania and indeed all countries to have a healthy welfare system for their destitute. But you can't just come and take things from a society that you are not going to even attempt to be a part of. I have sympathy for immigrants who come here to build a better life and end up on welfare, but the behaviour of welfare tourists is disrespectful and destructive. Are you OK with the behaviour of the individual from that documentary I linked to?

    @Kadagar - Yeah I agree gypsies have a pretty unhealthy culture. Some of them thought it would be a good idea to park all their caravans on a local football pitch. It is bizarre behaviour and I have no idea what they are doing.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  29. #29
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    So by EU law you can get social welfare in any nation you choose within the EU?

    Does the citizens country offset any of these costs?

    It seems strange that you can pay really high taxes in one country and another country has low taxes. But if you are a citizen of the low RS society you can just move across a border and get the other countries benefits without paying for them.

    In some ways its like how multinationals have a holding company in Bermuda. So I suppose if it is good enough for Google its good enough for Citizen John Smith.

    But I would suggest in the future that a citizens EU country or the one they pay their taxes in should be paying the tab.
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  30. #30
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio View Post
    So by EU law you can get social welfare in any nation you choose within the EU?

    Does the citizens country offset any of these costs?
    No.

    Basically, if you are entitled to a benefit whilst you are in that country, you have access to it. It is theoretically offset by the favour being 'returned'. So it would be comparable to someone moving within the same nation, you are entitled to the benefits of the state you are living in.

    The cost of living is different between here and Romania, so basically they take the money whilst living in bad conditions here, then transfer it through to Romania where they get 'more' for it. So live like a Pauper today so you can live like a Prince tomorrow.
    Last edited by Beskar; 07-29-2014 at 22:40.
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