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Thread: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

  1. #1
    EBII Council Senior Member Kull's Avatar
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    Default These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    There's a number of features and/or hardcoded limitations in M2TW. They may seem like "bugs" - but there's nothing we can do (or else we built it this way deliberately) - when you see them, that's just how it is. Team members are encouraged to post others here. I'll assemble them in this opening post for handy reference (if nothing else, when some obtuse noob reports one of these, the rest of you can respond - probably quicker than a Team Member can):

    1) Chariot/Elephant archer javelin crews do not turn when shooting/hurling. It looks ugly, but the M2TW animations for riders of this animal (and a chariot is just a different sort of M2TW elephant) do not allow for upper body pivoting.

    2) Taxation rates are not controllable in "camps". We used M2TW castles for this settlement class, and they don't allow manual change to taxation rates. Conversion to "city-style" settlements is eventually possible, so live with it until then (I'd argue it's a pretty accurate representation of the informal nature of pastoralist admin structures, anyway)

    3) Elephant vs. Elephant is inconclusive. Yes, they can't kill each other. Just don't do it. And if you think armies composed entirely of elephants should be able to slaughter one another, I'd love to see the historical proof.

    4) Roman city E-W gates can't be entered. This is a bug we hope to fix, but for now, it is what it is. Don't report it. We know.

    5) The "minor settlements" (PSFs) don't have walls. These are intended to be open fields where battles between armies take place. There's more than enough siege warfare as it is. Imagine that there's a town just beyond the range of visibility (most ancient battles happened outside some city or town, hence the historical name of the battle. Think of this as that).

    6) Battles at "minor settlements" (PSFs) still go through the siege process. True. The game thinks these are forts, even if they aren't. And it assumes all forts have walls, even when they don't. If it takes an extra turn to get the battle going, think of it as getting force dispositions in place for battle the next day. Pretty common historically, actually.

    7) The AI army sallied from the "minor settlements" (PSFs) but won't move toward my forces. True. It's technically a bug (the AI thinks there are walls, but can't find the gate so it just sits there), but the reality is, YOU initiated this open field battle. Thus you SHOULD BE the aggressor, and not relying on some gamey siege mechanism to get an advantage. And do NOT exploit this siege glitch to actually place AI units under siege in these PSFs. You are violating the whole reason for them being there in the first place. Or rather, go ahead and do it and screw up the quality of your game. Somebody who does this probably uses cheats anyway. A pox on them.

    8) I have to wait one turn and build siege equipment when attacking "camps" without walls. True. The game thinks all of these are castles, and even when they don't have walls, the game is incapable of handling that fact. "All Castles Have Walls!" Minor issue - but it's hardcoded. Everything else works fine (and the sally mechanism DOES work here, thanks to the wonderful efforts of makanyane to defeat the hardcoded limitations. KEY POINT: You must build at least one Ram! The underlying code thinks these are castles and will let you build ladders and towers as well, but both are useless. The game will CTD if it sees you trying to assault a walled level 2 or 3 camp with only ladders/towers.

    9) My fleets can't move past Gibraltar into the Atlantic Ocean. Other than down the small amount of North African coast. Impassable "ocean" terrain blocks movement to the north and west. In both directions and for all classes of ship. By design.

    10) My faction doesn't have a Family Button. By design. For historical reasons, the M2TW "teutonic system" is used by several EB2 factions (mostly barbarians): Aedui, Arverni, Arevaci, Boii, Lugia, Lusotannan, Pritanoi, Sweboz, and Koinon Hellenon. If you must have families, there are 19 other factions to choose from. Given the reaction to lack of families in R2TW, this will probably prove controversial - that's fine, discuss it elsewhere (NOT in this thread). And don't report it as a "bug".

    11) Cities have all this open space that my troops can't walk through. Those giant open areas? They aren't open areas. Those are the portions of the city reserved for temples, blacksmiths, govt buildings, etc. It was a minor miracle that we were able to bring the base-level DBM settlements into EB2. What we did not have was anybody who could bring in the various buildings that will grow into the afore mentioned structures. So not a bug, but a potential feature (some day).

    12) Units hold spears upside down. A required condition of the "overhand spear" animation. It has to do with how the overhand animation works versus the underhand. For the underhand, spearpoint is on top, and rotates down and forward. The wrist orientation does not change (you can test this yourself, holding an imaginary spear). For overhand, the spearpoint is on the bottom and rotates front and up. Again the wrist orientation doesn't change (you can try this too), and that is the key.

    Stand there with your imaginary spear and try to get a top-point spear into an overhead stabbing position without letting go of the spear in order to change your grip. Just not possible. And because spears are part of the unit model (not something separate like an arrow), the hand--wrist--spear connection can't change.

    13) Barbarian/Nomad/etc Rebel leader has Greek Portrait. Only affects those who are placed on the map via script. Portraits of scripted leaders will always appear as Greeks. Not a bug.

    14) The game CTDs after I click __ faction icons on the faction Selection Menu. This is an M2TW bug. There are reports claiming that it can be fixed, but we haven't been successful doing that with EB2. Just don't click a ton of different faction icons and you won't get this CTD.

    15) The game CTDs after I go from the Custom Battle Screen back to the Campaign Map (or vice versa). This is another M2TW bug. No known fix.

    16) The Game CTDs when I select one of the Tutorials. Unfortunately the Tutorials were never finished. Maybe some day. For now, we'll add warning text about this as part of the first Patch.

    Edit: This is a living thread, so periodically we'll add new items to the list or expand upon existing explanations.
    Last edited by Kull; 09-08-2014 at 19:23.
    "Numidia Delenda Est!"

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  2. #2
    Member Member I_damian's Avatar
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    Default Re: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    NO FAMILY TREE!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

    Lol just kidding. Can't wait to play it!
    EBII has finally released. All hail the EBII team!

  3. #3

    Default Re: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kull View Post
    9) My fleets can't move past Gibraltar into the Atlantic Ocean. Other than down the small amount of North African coast. Impassable "ocean" terrain blocks movement to the north and west. By design.

    What about the other way? Am I correct that you use the same system vanilla M2TW used to prevent the player to sail to America before a special kind of ship was developed. So the ships in the Atlantic (I guess Gauls and Britains do have ships), can they cross in the other direction?

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    EBII Council Senior Member Kull's Avatar
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    Default Re: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Antigonos Karchedonios View Post
    What about the other way? Am I correct that you use the same system vanilla M2TW used to prevent the player to sail to America before a special kind of ship was developed. So the ships in the Atlantic (I guess Gauls and Britains do have ships), can they cross in the other direction?
    Currently, all ships are prohibited from "ocean" travel. So the block goes both ways. We'll review how that plays out - depending on game play results, eventually there might be a certain class of ship which gains that ability.
    "Numidia Delenda Est!"

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    Annoyingly awesome Member Booger Flick Champion, Run Sam Run Champion, Speed Cards Champion rickinator9's Avatar
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    Default Re: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    What is meant with 'E-W' gates?
    rickinator9 is either a cleverly "hidden in plain sight by jumping on the random bandwagon" scum or the ever-increasing in popularity "What the is going on?" townie. Either way I want to lynch him. - White Eyes

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    EBII Council Senior Member Kull's Avatar
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    Default Re: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    Quote Originally Posted by rickinator9 View Post
    What is meant with 'E-W' gates?
    Can't guarantee it will always appear that way on the map, but assuming a N-S orientation is true of all custom battles, the gates to the East (right) and West (left) of the attacking force cannot be entered. Oddly enough, your troops can batter them down with a Ram, but they can't pass through the open doorway.
    "Numidia Delenda Est!"

  7. #7

    Default Re: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kull View Post

    5) The "minor settlements" (PSFs) don't have walls. These are intended to be open fields where battles between armies take place. There's more than enough siege warfare as it is. Imagine that there's a town just beyond the range of visibility (most ancient battles happened outside some city or town, hence the historical name of the battle. Think of this as that).
    That's Genius! Dealing with Siege battles was a constant gripe I had with the TW series but you guys not only came up with a solution, but did so with lateral thinking. I'm curious which one of you came up with the idea?
    Last edited by TylerX5; 08-25-2014 at 07:31.

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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerX5 View Post
    That's Genius! Dealing with Siege battles was a constant gripe I had with the TW series but you guys not only came up with a solution, but did so with lateral thinking. I'm curious which one of you came up with the idea?
    This isn't exactly a first for a Total War game. Rome 2 has a province system where only one town in a province of 3/4 settlements has walls.
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    EBII Council Senior Member Kull's Avatar
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    Default Re: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    This isn't exactly a first for a Total War game. Rome 2 has a province system where only one town in a province of 3/4 settlements has walls.
    We came up with the idea 3-4 years before R2TW was released! You just never heard about it until now.

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerX5 View Post
    That's Genius! Dealing with Siege battles was a constant gripe I had with the TW series but you guys not only came up with a solution, but did so with lateral thinking. I'm curious which one of you came up with the idea?
    It's back there in the mists of time - I'll have to dig into it. Agreed that it's a nice concept!
    Last edited by Kull; 08-25-2014 at 14:12.
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    Default Re: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    This isn't exactly a first for a Total War game. Rome 2 has a province system where only one town in a province of 3/4 settlements has walls.
    And that will still result in sieges just without walls,the Ai will sit there while you can just massacre them.That's not really the same as having field battles.

  11. #11
    EBII Council Senior Member Kull's Avatar
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    Default Re: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Thoras View Post
    And that will still result in sieges just without walls,the Ai will sit there while you can just massacre them.That's not really the same as having field battles.
    Um. No.
    "Numidia Delenda Est!"

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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Thoras View Post
    And that will still result in sieges just without walls,the Ai will sit there while you can just massacre them.That's not really the same as having field battles.
    This comes down to game mechanics. There are no army limits here so you can garrison your towns with whatever you want, but you can't in Rome 2 as you have an army limit so you can't garrison every town you have. So there are automatic garrisons mostly of levy units, so in that case it's preferable to have city battles because you can actually defend a city that way with levies via choke points and the like, but fighting an open field battle with levies is suicide.
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    Default Re: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    And that will still result in sieges just without walls,the Ai will sit there while you can just massacre them.That's not really the same as having field battles.
    Um. No.
    That was about Rome 2 and it is usually what happened for me,the player can easily flank them while the few key areas defended by the AI result in them being surrounded,the fact that most of them are low tierunits that rout extremly fast doesn't help.

    This comes down to game mechanics. There are no army limits here so you can garrison your towns with whatever you want, but you can't in Rome 2 as you have an army limit so you can't garrison every town you have. So there are automatic garrisons mostly of levy units, so in that case it's preferable to have city battles because you can actually defend a city that way with levies via choke points and the like, but fighting an open field battle with levies is suicide.
    The problem is that it doesn't work.The unwalled settlements in Rome 2 don't have any real choke points And the levies rout extremly fast,and are still useless considering that the attacking force is usually made up from higher quality troops.
    And while the AI is dumb enough to attack areas that I defend I am not(as probably most players if not all players are) and usually simply flank them while faking an attack.

  14. #14

    Default Re: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    Hello,

    I have a bug to report. I am playing britons at the moment and my ships can not transport my british chariots. I do not know about other chariot factions, but i can say that i Can not travel with my chariots further than british isles.

  15. #15

    Default Re: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    I'm playing the Romani campaign right now and I noticed that the ballista towers in my settlement with low level walls only start firing when the enemy is inside the city O_o. Is this a bug?

  16. #16
    EBII Council Senior Member Kull's Avatar
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    Default Re: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    Quote Originally Posted by brodinis View Post
    Hello,

    I have a bug to report. I am playing britons at the moment and my ships can not transport my british chariots. I do not know about other chariot factions, but i can say that i Can not travel with my chariots further than british isles.
    Team is discussing this.
    "Numidia Delenda Est!"

  17. #17
    EBII Council Senior Member Kull's Avatar
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    Default Re: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybvep View Post
    I'm playing the Romani campaign right now and I noticed that the ballista towers in my settlement with low level walls only start firing when the enemy is inside the city O_o. Is this a bug?
    Probably a bug. We'll see if our settlement expert can figure it out.
    "Numidia Delenda Est!"

  18. #18

    Default Re: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    8) I have to wait one turn and build siege equipment when attacking "camps" without walls. True. The game thinks all of these are castles, and even when they don't have walls, the game is incapable of handling that fact. "All Castles Have Walls!" Minor issue - but it's hardcoded. Everything else works fine (and the sally mechanism DOES work here, thanks to the wonderful efforts of makanyane to defeat the hardcoded limitations. KEY POINT: You must build at least one Ram! The underlying code thinks these are castles and will let you build ladders and towers as well, but both are useless. The game will CTD if it sees you trying to assault a walled level 2 or 3 camp with only ladders/towers.
    It looks like you've sometimes forgotten to remove walls :p
    In my parthian campaign, Bukhara with uniform pastoralisme (tier 2 camp) has a medieval castle, and I think bactrian AI was glad to have build siege engines :D

  19. #19
    EBII Council Senior Member Kull's Avatar
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    Default Re: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    Quote Originally Posted by bisthebis View Post
    It looks like you've sometimes forgotten to remove walls :p
    In my parthian campaign, Bukhara with uniform pastoralisme (tier 2 camp) has a medieval castle, and I think bactrian AI was glad to have build siege engines :D
    I have attacked that camp - it is a normal looking EB2 camp. Are you saying it looks like a castle in your build? If so, screenshot please.
    "Numidia Delenda Est!"

  20. #20
    Member Member Soul Reaver's Avatar
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    Default Re: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    Quote Originally Posted by brodinis View Post
    Hello,

    I have a bug to report. I am playing britons at the moment and my ships can not transport my british chariots. I do not know about other chariot factions, but i can say that i Can not travel with my chariots further than british isles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kull View Post
    Team is discussing this.
    I might have the answer, Its missing its sea_faring ability in the EDU, that would prevent the unit from boarding a ship wouldn't it?

  21. #21
    Member Member Thaatu's Avatar
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    Default Re: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    Is it a M2TW or an EB2 bug when the textures of cavalry units tilt when standing on a hillside, but the model stays upright, resulting in weirdly stretched units? This doesn't happen with infantry, just horsemen.

  22. #22
    Member Member NuBee4ever's Avatar
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    Default Re: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    7) The AI army sallied from the "minor settlements" (PSFs) but won't move toward my forces.
    Slight take on that:

    I was attacked (none in or from a settlement) by a couple of stacks way bigger than me, I retreated, they followed and attacked again in the same turn. Can't flee again, so I form in a semi hedgehog formation between a deep valley and a small mount or big rock at the very end of the map to hopefully get'em tired and do an Alamo or a Camerone.

    They join, align their troops facing me and... stay mid-map for the whole time. I got a minimal or marginal victory (forgot the verbatim). So far, I'm ok with it, stalmate, but then, back on strat map, both stacks disappear (with the groaning leaders dying animation).

    I even got a +1 tactical for this!

    I guess I could run at them, but that'd be suicide instead of a harsh defensive battle.
    Last edited by NuBee4ever; 06-14-2016 at 14:21.

  23. #23

    Default Re: These are NOT EB2 bugs (please don't report them)

    This is probably one of those things that is not an EBII bug, but in 1440x900 resolution, you can't read the tops of some longer biographies because it goes past the top of the screen. I don't know if it's feasible, but you might be able to solve this by moving the biography trait lower in the list of traits.

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