possible bug reg Pritanoi skirmishers in campaign

[Ibrahim]

@Not_a_Strategist_yet:

1-first off: thanks for the help! I have decided to make your fix official for the time being, and should be incorporated into future releases. EDIT: with modifications: I've gone ahead and simplified the scheme, so that there wouldn't be as many different types of javelin. There were supposed to be only two ranges anyways: ~30 m and ~50 m (adjusted to 50 and 70 to account for the engine). And I have to say: it works flawlessly for infantry and skirmisher cavalry.
2-the prec_bug is a bug that prevents units who are supposed to throw first before entering melee from actually throwing their javelins properly. it is why at present units who do only get 1 javelin, instead of the correct 2. This wort affects the cavalry who are supposed to throw their javelins then charge (like the Armenian minor nobles).

ADDENDUM: right now your scheme has all but eliminated the problem for the infantry, but the cavalry precs need help. will make arrangements to improve akonstists and relatives.

[Not_a_Strategist_yet]

ADDENDUM: right now your scheme has all but eliminated the problem for the infantry, but the cavalry precs need help. will make arrangements to improve akonstists and relatives.

Yes the cavlary was less tested I have to admit. But I can recognise the problem.
The problem is the formation is much bigger so at max range a lot of them are out of range.

I think you will need to add like 25-30% bigger top speed for the cavalry javelins so all can be in range. Just increase the top speed in cav_javelin and it will be fine.

As for the different projectiles of shame type, don't eliminate the same thing from arrows and long range things to just one value plz if you plan to use it. The thing is to have realistic trajectories you need different speed for an arrow at 140m and 180m. Instead plz keep the values for the ranges you plan and adjust them to your liking like you did with javelins.

[Not_a_Strategist_yet]

Discovered a new cause that prevents the cavalry skirmishers from being usable.
After running away from enemies with skirmish mod, the formation breaks up a bit and even if it does not a lot of the men end up in crazy distances from enemy,
The engine somehow thinks they are in range so it fires and javelins do not fire as a consequence.
Furthermore it retreats them before they actually get in range.

This calls for an aesthetically unpleasant fix. I had to give crazy top speeds to cavalry projectiles so they can reach target after retreating with skirmish mod. Speeds even more than some arrows lol.
This in turn made them miss like hell, so then I had to give them more accuracy as well.

EDIT: FILES TAKEN DOWN. SORRY GENTS, THE ABOVE WORKS FOR CAVALRY WITH SKIRMISH MOD ON BUT VISUALLY IT LOOKS TOO UNREALISTIC< AND THIS MOD LOVES REALISM AFTER ALL. SO PLZ DONT USE SKIRMISH MODE WITH CAVALRY TILL ANOTHER SOLUTION IS FOUND!

Anyone here knows were you can set the distance cavalry will run with skirmish mode on and when skirmish will be enabled? Then I can make a proper fix.

[Not_a_Strategist_yet]

For the skirmisher cavalry, to correct the behaviour described in my posts above.
Plz use these settings in your battle_config.xml (path= mods/eb2/data/)

I try to make them skirmish so that they don't get out of range once they retreat. The changes bellow will make them skirmish when enemy closes the distance a bit more + they won't get as far as before.
So far getting encouraging results.

I don't post the file, because it's not yet confirmed. Plz try it though and sare your thoughts. (changes in bold , look under skirmish section)

<cavalry>
<default>
<!-- ignore targets at a distance greater than the maximum range times this scale factor -->
<max-range-scale>2.0</max-range-scale>
<!-- must skirmish if within this range -->
<min-range>20</min-range>
<!-- stop at this distance if the enemy is blocking the path -->
<min-stopping-range>30</min-stopping-range>
<!-- time to react to being intercepted -->
<collision-reaction-time>1.1</collision-reaction-time>
<!-- retreat buffer time -->
<retreat-time>0.5</retreat-time>
<!-- don't skirmish until attackers are within this fraction of the missile range -->
<range-factor>
<moving>0.7</moving>
<shooting>0.55</shooting>
</range-factor>
<!-- reaction time for cantabrian circle -->
<cantabrian-reaction-time>2.2</cantabrian-reaction-time>
</default>

[Ibrahim]

tried it just now: seems very promising: hippakontistai now punishing infantry and cavalry pretty hard. I approve.

just leaves the prec cavalry. I found that they're more likely to fire when sent on fire at will, though it means no charge bonus.

[Not_a_Strategist_yet]

just leaves the prec cavalry

Can you give me a list of units for those? I can possibly work something out. Was trying to find a cavalry with prec_javelin but could not find any. Or is it the havy_cav_javelin the prec ones?

I think the issue if they still don't work is they need the just a bit more top speed so all are in range before charge. But if you can tell me unit names I can find out.

[Not_a_Strategist_yet]

Never mind I found them.
Cannot fix properly for some reason no trick works. Engine limitation maybe?

Anyway what I can try is fix their behaviour when set to attack with fire at will mode.
*Made the range longer, like 80-90m. It does not matter much because they will throw the javelins at the start of the charge in much closer range anyway.
*Reduced the charging distance. This was done to give them enough time to throw the javelins well ahead of the blow to enemy formation. My hope is with that way at least a portion of the first line will be ready to charge (lowered weapons and stuff) before the blow.

FILE DOWN

Plz give it a try. Besides even if it does not fix things much it will make fire at will more effective for those units in the event of a flanking attack for example.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/vqkup1

Update: Seems I was a bit too extreme with the shorter charge distance, this is amended.
I know it's not quite what intended but with this file they will throw javelins then almost imediately after provided units come towards them will charge.
So not a great fix but at least a visually good one that permits a proper charge while using fire at will.