possible bug reg Pritanoi skirmishers in campaign

[Ibrahim]

tried it just now: seems very promising: hippakontistai now punishing infantry and cavalry pretty hard. I approve.

just leaves the prec cavalry. I found that they're more likely to fire when sent on fire at will, though it means no charge bonus.

[Not_a_Strategist_yet]

just leaves the prec cavalry

Can you give me a list of units for those? I can possibly work something out. Was trying to find a cavalry with prec_javelin but could not find any. Or is it the havy_cav_javelin the prec ones?

I think the issue if they still don't work is they need the just a bit more top speed so all are in range before charge. But if you can tell me unit names I can find out.

[Not_a_Strategist_yet]

Never mind I found them.
Cannot fix properly for some reason no trick works. Engine limitation maybe?

Anyway what I can try is fix their behaviour when set to attack with fire at will mode.
*Made the range longer, like 80-90m. It does not matter much because they will throw the javelins at the start of the charge in much closer range anyway.
*Reduced the charging distance. This was done to give them enough time to throw the javelins well ahead of the blow to enemy formation. My hope is with that way at least a portion of the first line will be ready to charge (lowered weapons and stuff) before the blow.

FILE DOWN

Plz give it a try. Besides even if it does not fix things much it will make fire at will more effective for those units in the event of a flanking attack for example.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/vqkup1

Update: Seems I was a bit too extreme with the shorter charge distance, this is amended.
I know it's not quite what intended but with this file they will throw javelins then almost imediately after provided units come towards them will charge.
So not a great fix but at least a visually good one that permits a proper charge while using fire at will.

[Ibrahim]

In this case, I would recommend first posting the affected code of one of the units--that way others can know how to do it. will download and apply to EDU in the meantime.

[Not_a_Strategist_yet]

Sure , here you go:

The logic is the following:
1)Since prec will not work for any reason and I can't correct it at least not with my knoweledge some way has to be found so the fire at will mod gives behaviour close to the one intended with prec without fire at will
2) To do that range was increased to 60m so cavalry have some clear air to reload and fire javelins before enemy formation comes to close
3) At same time charge distance was reduced to 40m, to be smaller than range. So right after firing the javelins the cavalry will be in proper position to charge.

That's why I say it's not a fix but a sideways thinking to limit the damage from the broken mechanic.

Changes in bold, example:

; COMMENTS Aspet Hetselazor (Armenian Minor Nobles) / Unit ID 377 / Start exp: 0 / Refr rate: 0,0192 / Pool cap: 2
type eastern cavalry aspet hetselazor
dictionary eastern_cavalry_aspet_hetselazor
category cavalry
class light
voice_type General
accent Armenian
banner faction main_cavalry
banner holy crusade
soldier Anatolian_Med_Cav, 40, 0, 5.27
mount horse_unarmoured
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, mercenary_unit, hardy, can_withdraw, cannot_skirmish
move_speed_mod 0.99
formation 2.5, 3, 3.2, 4.4, 5, square
stat_health 1, 6
stat_pri 9, 4, cav_heavy_javelin40, 60, 1, thrown, missile_mechanical, piercing, none, 0, 1
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown
stat_sec 8, 11, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_simple, piercing, spear, 0, 1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 5, 6, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 1
stat_ground 0, -2, -3, -2
stat_mental 9, disciplined, trained
stat_charge_dist 45
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1824, 323, 30, 210, 784, 6, 235
stat_stl 3
armour_ug_levels 0
armour_ug_models Anatolian_Med_Cav
ownership f_rome, f_carthage, f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_kh, f_seleukid, f_ptolemaioi, f_baktria, f_hayasdan, f_pontos, f_parthia, f_aedui, f_arverni, f_casse, f_lusotannan, f_sweboz, f_getai, f_saba, f_saka, f_sauromatae, f_numidia, f_pergamon, f_gandhara, f_lugia, f_bosporan, f_arevaci, f_boii, f_nabatu, slave
era 0 f_hayasdan
era 1 f_hayasdan
era 2 f_rome, f_carthage, f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_kh, f_seleukid, f_ptolemaioi, f_baktria, f_hayasdan, f_pontos, f_parthia, f_aedui, f_arverni, f_casse, f_lusotannan, f_sweboz, f_getai, f_saba, f_saka, f_sauromatae, f_numidia, f_pergamon, f_gandhara, f_lugia, f_bosporan, f_arevaci, f_boii, f_nabatu
info_pic_dir f_all
card_pic_dir f_all
recruit_priority_offset 3

PS: of course the javelin must have the new range.

Don't misanderstand me on this, not trying to withhold any info simply during the week my time is limited, sometimes I forget to write something. Anyway the above will explain

[Ibrahim]

Sure , here you go:

The logic is the following:
1)Since prec will not work for any reason and I can't correct it at least not with my knoweledge some way has to be found so the fire at will mod gives behaviour close to the one intended with prec without fire at will
2) To do that range was increased to 60m so cavalry have some clear air to reload and fire javelins before enemy formation comes to close
3) At same time charge distance was reduced to 40m, to be smaller than range. So right after firing the javelins the cavalry will be in proper position to charge.

That's why I say it's not a fix but a sideways thinking to limit the damage from the broken mechanic.

Changes in bold, example:


PS: of course the javelin must have the new range.

Don't misanderstand me on this, not trying to withhold any info simply during the week my time is limited, sometimes I forget to write something. Anyway the above will explain

don't worry, I know you aren't holding anything back, and I was never concerned. This particular fix I wanted posted here, so that others may look at it and offer suggestions to improve on it, since as you say, the solution is imperfect. perhaps someone will come with another idea that may prove better.

as it is, it works OK, though I will have to introduce a charge factor, in the event that the charge bonus from the melee doesn't work as a result. have already updated the heavy_cav javelin to allow for this.