Should I go to this political rally, as democrat?

[Ironside]

That they are underdogs is of course another factor. Who wouldnt support the underdog in questions they don't care about?

My racial ideas have nothing to do with nazism, and little to do with what SVP proposes. At least that's what I THINK as I haven't heard SvP speak, I know only what leftist media tell me about them.

That's kind of being vehemently against a party as the Fox News said "it's liberal".

Eh, you could read their party program (English version even! Language traitors!!!!). They do have a homepage. SD got notable facist leanings, SVP is facists, down to questioning democracy (to build something better, somehow).

Really, the cops are there. And they're allowed to have a homepage. That's enough for you to accept for them to say their word. After all, the opposition are also saying theirs.

Replace SVP with an ISIS recruitment drive. Still want to go out and defend them? I can add that they're in some ways the Swedish version of ISIS (ISIS is obsessed with their version of purity for example).
People are people, no matter were they live. What changes are the cultural manifistation.

[Kadagar_AV]

Eh, you could read their party program (English version even! Language traitors!!!!). They do have a homepage. SD got notable facist leanings, SVP is facists, down to questioning democracy (to build something better, somehow).

Really, the cops are there. And they're allowed to have a homepage. That's enough for you to accept for them to say their word. After all, the opposition are also saying theirs.

Replace SVP with an ISIS recruitment drive. Still want to go out and defend them? I can add that they're in some ways the Swedish version of ISIS (ISIS is obsessed with their version of purity for example).
People are people, no matter were they live. What changes are the cultural manifistation.

**** Yeah I would listen to an ISIS political drive, was it outside of where I lived.

I also defend their right to be heard on even terms with anyone else. What's your point?

Seems like you have a rather shady definition of "democracy".


The SvP party program is EXTREMELY up to definitions.

Sure they mightbe the evil that some of the leftist media claim.

Or they can actually defend their views in a democratic light?

I don't know? That's. Why. I. Think. It's. Right. For. People. To. Hear. Them. Out.

Specially if all it would take was to step outside of their house. IMHO the least you can do if you want to know why you are for/against something.



EDIT: Another thing that annoyed me... To call them anti-democratic - As that would be a reason to not listen to them. Or are you under the belief that a democracy only lives and thrives if people completely ignore other ideas?

Should one allow violent opposition to make one NOT listen to ideas?

Now that's a scary view of democracy if I ever heard one.

[Ironside]

Or they can actually defend their views in a democratic light?

I don't know? That's. Why. I. Think. It's. Right. For. People. To. Hear. Them. Out.

Specially if all it would take was to step outside of their house. IMHO the least you can do if you want to know why you are for/against something.

They. Have. That. Right. Legal right that is. And police protection proves it. Worthy of listening to? Your choise. But standing with them isn't a statement of listening, but supporting.

The opposition also have the right to shun them and show that their ideas aren't worthy of a serious discussion.

The problem with a debate is that it often validates both sides. One may be weaker, but both are valid. And politician speak is often needed to be interpreted. It's not the flaws of the current way, nor is it what ideal you want to reach. It's how you reach it. Leaving that out, and you can still sound good, while hiding the real message.

[Kadagar_AV]

They. Have. That. Right. Legal right that is. And police protection proves it. Worthy of listening to? Your choise. But standing with them isn't a statement of listening, but supporting.

Listening to their speech is not in any way supporting them.

Walking with them on their political march (as many Swedish partys organise) would be showing support. Can you tell the difference?

The opposition also have the right to shun them and show that their ideas aren't worthy of a serious discussion.

Of course, I don't argue against that. I am arguing leftist activists trying to STOP them altogether, which is what's happening. Look at the Malmö rally.

I will never ever condone violence in election campaigns. Looking at what happened in Malmö, you accept violence to keep people silent and afraid to listen?

The problem with a debate is that it often validates both sides. One may be weaker, but both are valid. And politician speak is often needed to be interpreted.

This just shows the world how the ****** up people of Sweden generally thinks.

You SERIOUSLY need someone to interpret what is said?

You don't bother to hear political partys out, you just go by what interpreters (read: media) say?

What a retarded argument in the western world 2014.

It's not the flaws of the current way, nor is it what ideal you want to reach. It's how you reach it. Leaving that out, and you can still sound good, while hiding the real message.

Let people make up their own damn minds. What's so hard to get? Let people listen to what's happening at their doorstep, without being afraid of being physically injured.

[Fragony]

Having read up I got to agree with Horetore about these guys, sounds like the real thing

[Kadagar_AV]

Having read up I got to agree with Horetore about these guys, sounds like the real thing

What part about it should keep me from listening?



AGAIN: I in no way endorse their view. I just like to hear what their political stance is without anything between me and them.

I think the drone quote was spot on.

[Fragony]

What part about it should keep me from listening?



AGAIN: I in no way endorse their view. I just like to hear what their political stance is without anything between me and them.

I think the drone quote was spot on.

I understand your motivations are different, would still avoid them myself though. Wouldn't do them the favour.

[Ironside]

Listening to their speech is not in any way supporting them.

Walking with them on their political march (as many Swedish partys organise) would be showing support. Can you tell the difference?

It would be showing interest. With the era of homepages, that's more to listen to their speech, rather than learning what they stand for. Honestly I got no idea how those speeches looks like. How do the the police differ between audience and protestors that aren't yet active in protesting?

Of course, I don't argue against that. I am arguing leftist activists trying to STOP them altogether, which is what's happening. Look at the Malmö rally.

I will never ever condone violence in election campaigns. Looking at what happened in Malmö, you accept violence to keep people silent and afraid to listen?

No, I'm not fond of troublemakers pretending to do social justice as an excuse for violence. The same people sometimes end up joining the nazi parties later on to get their violence kick that way. Both sides got people going on eachother hooligan style. Thing is, they're only a few % of the protesters. So what about the rights of the 95+% protesters?

This just shows the world how the ****** up people of Sweden generally thinks.

You SERIOUSLY need someone to interpret what is said?

You don't bother to hear political partys out, you just go by what interpreters (read: media) say?

What a retarded argument in the western world 2014.

No, I need to interpret what has been said. Politician speech is filled with things that need interpretation. SVP got 6 pages on how they want to improve the goverment and criticism of our current democracy. I can agree with them on some points, but in reality they say nothing on the how, making it empty, nice sounding rethorics.

Add that some sources can be taken at face value, while some can't. It's way preferble to have gotten hints that some messages might have way more bias than normal, since very few will go through the effort of making a very through source checking for everything. See that report that found a link between autism in black boys and vaccination, thanks to beating the data with a hammer throughly enough. That's boderline lies with a specific purpose.

Don't know how it is in Germany, but if the few neo's we have here, not more than 100 probably it is always them who get attacked, I don't call that voicing an opinion. Let these Hitler-fanboys wave their flags and make fun of them, it's pretty pathetic. They are pretty much harmless no matter how sick their thoughts are. The extreme-left is actually dangerous, our intelligence-service and police aren't interested in the neo-nazi's at all.

You sure? Political violence are about 50-50 in Sweden. The violent left is probably about the same size, but can hide better in the way larger, non-violent left.

[Fragony]

Yeah I am sure but I can't speak for Sweden, the extreme-right is non-existant here, if there are more than a hundred I would be surprised. The extreme-left lashes out at anything that doesn't suit them though, they are well organised and well funded, have former RAF members in their company and other nutjobs who only understand violence. If it's 50/50 than I understand the lefties in Scandinavia better, but they aren't any less hostile here despite a non-existing problem, they are anti-everything. I would certainly consider them the new facists, same tactics, intimidation, threats, mob-rule.

I like Kads take, agree to disagree but still protecting what's it's all about to be living in a matured society. Myself, extreme left/right, screw them all.