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Thread: Pontic Phalanx Pikemen

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    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Pontic Phalanx Pikemen

    What is up with Pontus's Phalanx Pikemen? I was looking at them, and instead of the standard 120 men like Macedon, Seleucia, and Thrace have, they have 80 men. And whereas those three have 8 attack 13 defense for their PP, Pontic ones have 8 attack, 16 defense, therefore having a better defense than the Bronze Shields that Pontus can train (BSP have 10 attack 14 defense). Bronze Shields do have 120 men, though. Wondering if anybody else has noticed that.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pontic Phalanx Pikemen

    Can't say that I had noticed. Haven't played Pontus very often anyways... Having said that, there are a lot of unit-stat inconsistencies (too numerous to mention), but you can easily edit them (find the export_descr_unit folder found in the Data Directory). You can change the # of men in a unit (and you will have to adjust the price accordingly); the off/def stats; and you can even change the unit formation (for example, I changed Egyptian Desert Cavalry from 80 to 54 men, and their formation from line to square).

    I would certainly edit Phalanx Pike for Pontus to reflect their differences with the Bronze Shields. I would increase their numbers to 120 (like everyone else who gets them), and adjust the price and bring their off/def stats down a bit.

    Just checked Macedonia/Thrace/Seleucia Phalanx Pike and their primary stats are 8 attk (6 charge bonus)---6 armor/5 defense/2 shield= 13 total def for a 120 man unit
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 09-03-2014 at 16:23.
    High Plains Drifter

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    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pontic Phalanx Pikemen

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Can't say that I had noticed. Haven't played Pontus very often anyways... Having said that, there are a lot of unit-stat inconsistencies (too numerous to mention), but you can easily edit them (find the export_descr_unit folder found in the Data Directory). You can change the # of men in a unit (and you will have to adjust the price accordingly); the off/def stats; and you can even change the unit formation (for example, I changed Egyptian Desert Cavalry from 80 to 54 men, and their formation from line to square).

    I would certainly edit Phalanx Pike for Pontus to reflect their differences with the Bronze Shields. I would increase their numbers to 120 (like everyone else who gets them), and adjust the price and bring their off/def stats down a bit.

    Just checked Macedonia/Thrace/Seleucia Phalanx Pike and their primary stats are 8 attk (6 charge bonus)---6 armor/5 defense/2 shield= 13 total def for a 120 man unit
    Not that I would edit it, I don't like messing with that kind of stuff outside of modding to play other factions. I guess you could say the extra defense is why their units are smaller. Noticed the smaller units first when my brother did Pontus, but that did not last long, then later when I looked in custom battle, I saw that not only were the units smaller, they had better defense. It would not make up for the -40 men against another PP unit, though. It definitely puts Pontus at even more of a disadvantage against Seleucia. I did not even know DC were 80 men, I thought they were already 54. I never see them, Egypt almost always has Nubian or Nile Cav instead. They may want more DC against my Armoured Hoplites (I am back to Greece for right now, Armenia gets tiring with all the HA battles.)
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pontic Phalanx Pikemen

    Not that I would edit it, I don't like messing with that kind of stuff outside of modding to play other factions
    It's rather easy to do, really. Just make a backup of the original file in case you do something wrong. Editing unit stats is an easy way to get your feet wet on modding. Modding game files was a good outlet for me to alter some of the more inconsistent or annoying things I didn't like, instead of griping about them
    High Plains Drifter

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    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pontic Phalanx Pikemen

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Modding game files was a good outlet for me to alter some of the more inconsistent or annoying things I didn't like, instead of griping about them
    Such as Pharaoh's Bowmen/Guards. I would be tempted to mod out the Bull Warriors. They are not a good unit, yet they swing an auto-resolve battle. They are definitely not worth what you pay for them, not to mention the two turns to make them. You are better off with Scutarii. And the Wardogs would probably go as well. Screeching Women, I want to see what Cataphracts do to them. Hahaha. Or Armoured Elephants. While we are speaking about modding out units…Heavy Onagers vs Onagers. Are the Heavies realistic, do you know? I don't think they are worth the extra turn. Can I mod in British archers? Yeah, move Pharaoh's Bowmen to Britannia…mod their stats down, of course. All sorts of interesting stuff you can do with a mod. Give Urban Cohort the same number of pila as archers get, with archer range…If you feel like cheating, I can give you some ideas…Don't mind me, it is 10:30 at night right now, and I am tired, so I have some great ideas now.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pontic Phalanx Pikemen

    Screeching Women, I want to see what Cataphracts do to them.
    SPLATT. Actually, I modded out Screeching Women for a different reason...Germania makes them in droves because they're cheap, but with a defense of 1 they don't auto-calc worth a crap (not even to mention the silliness)

    Can I mod in British archers?
    Yes...I did the same for Carthage. Seems rather foolish that a basic archer unit wasn't available to them, either. You can cut/paste the vanilla stats from another faction, but you have to enable the faction to have them and you have to mod in a unit card to represent them, as well.

    Heavy Onagers vs Onagers. Are the Heavies realistic, do you know?
    Probably. This person makes a good case for the onager not having wheels, having been purpose-built on site:

    http://www.mywizards.com/catapults/onager/

    Want to build your very own?.....

    http://www.algobeautytreb.com/

    High Plains Drifter

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    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pontic Phalanx Pikemen

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Probably. This person makes a good case for the onager not having wheels, having been purpose-built on site:

    http://www.mywizards.com/catapults/onager/

    Want to build your very own?.....

    http://www.algobeautytreb.com/

    I favor the Trebuchet myself, having used it in AoE2, and saw it used in M2TW. Though the cannon were even more impressive. I did not notice the heavies have no wheels, I just noticed the color difference. That makes more sense, with the difference. And I noticed something, after upgrading the Egyptian Large Walls in Tarsus to Greek Epic Walls, even after the onagers destroyed my Gateway, it was still shooting at the enemy. The boiling oil did not work, but the artillery did. Now it might have been in the battle after the one in which it was destroyed, I had not had a chance to repair them, I will have to watch for that, but my destroyed gateway still fired at the enemy (even if it was not in the same battle), which I thought could not happen. Not that I minded.

    And he made in Jerusalem engines, invented by cunning men, to be on the towers and upon the bulwarks, to shoot arrows and great stones withal. 2 Chronicles 26:15a
    Last edited by Vincent Butler; 09-04-2014 at 18:23.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

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    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pontic Phalanx Pikemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent Butler View Post
    And I noticed something, after upgrading the Egyptian Large Walls in Tarsus to Greek Epic Walls, even after the onagers destroyed my Gateway, it was still shooting at the enemy. The boiling oil did not work, but the artillery did. Now it might have been in the battle after the one in which it was destroyed, I had not had a chance to repair them, I will have to watch for that, but my destroyed gateway still fired at the enemy (even if it was not in the same battle), which I thought could not happen. Not that I minded.
    Apparently it was a glitch, I watched the next time I was in that situation, and it did not happen again. And Armenia and Thrace attacked me in the same turn. "Hey, there's the superpower, let's attack them". Armenia is actually strong right now, as is Thrace. But I have money at my command. Over three million denari. So Thrace will lose Byzantium in a few turns. I don't know how swift my revenge will be, I don't want to fight a six-front campaign, though that is what may do, I think I will keep it at four. Julii, Brutii, Numidia, Egypt. Thrace will go after I deal with Rome, Egypt after Numidia, Armenia after I take Jerusalem and Antioch. It is annoying, Tarsus will go through as many as six sieges without the opportunity to retrain. I think taking Sidon will relieve some of that pressure. But now Sidon is under attack. Oh, well. I do hate Egyptian walls, Greek are so much better for defense, both for strength and effectiveness of towers. And I still hate Pharoah's Bowmen. The sheer range that they have. But my archers are gold chevron, gold sword, silver shield. Hopefully in the process of eliminating Egypt they will get the gold shield. The Scipii were gone too quickly for me to get it through them.
    Last edited by Vincent Butler; 09-09-2014 at 18:48.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  9. #9
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pontic Phalanx Pikemen

    "Hey, there's the superpower, let's attack them".
    Yep...the "Black Knight" syndrome that was to plague later releases began in R1.

    I do hate Egyptian walls, Greek are so much better for defense, both for strength and effectiveness of towers.
    Actually, all Eastern walls are funky. I don't like all the silly angles in front of the main gate, especially at "epic" levels. Most of the time I don't bother to upgrade to epic for that reason. I always do the "View City" option prior to upgrading to see how the walls change.

    Advanced Cretans still win out against PB, though they take a bit more losses than usual.....
    High Plains Drifter

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    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pontic Phalanx Pikemen

    Hey, there's the superpower, let's attack them
    What is even funnier is when it is somebody with only two settlements left, like Dacia did with my Macedon campaign. A full army of pretty much all Warband attacked Campus Getai or Scythia, I don't remember which one. In a town, phalanx simply dominates Warband (and really anything else).

    Actually, all Eastern walls are funky.
    Yeah, I really only like the Roman/Greek. Of course, Barbarians don't get Stone Walls in Vanilla Rome, they do in EB. Eastern gateways cannot fire inside the city, Roman/Greek can. Roman/Greek also depress their weapons to a lower angle, and can take more punishment. It takes two onagers to take down an Epic Roman gateway (and I think even a large), one can do it to Eastern gateways. In a huge Greek/Roman town, enemies attacking from the east almost never take the gateway, and have to travel on a road right in front of it to get to my troops. The towers decimate them before they even get to my men. Sometimes legionaries will form testudo when coming under the attack, and will get wiped out because it takes so long to get set up and move. Awesome. The bummer about them not taking the gateway, if they don't sap or take a gateway, they have no way of getting out of the town, so they can't rout. They have to be wiped out. Which I guess isn't so much of a bummer after all, but it takes longer, they all fight to the end.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

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