Is Indigenous Military Outposts bugged?

[QuintusSertorius]

I cannot answer that, but will see if we can set a more detailed description for the effects...

Right, looking at the Building Browser, higher tiers of the Indigenous Military Outpost require 20% then 40% Eastern Imperial culture, so it seems a good bet that's the source of the issue.

Has it been mistakenly inserted in the building roster in place of Metoikia Katoikon (Foreign Military Settlers)? I can't build that in Massalia, but it's a requirement to upgrade to Supervised Hellenic Administration.

In fact I can't build those anywhere; I wonder if Epeiros has the wrong kind of settlers/outposts?

EDIT: And as a quick addendum, since destroying that Hellenistic Polities is climbing again - though Eastern Imperial isn't falling (yet, at least).

[Arjos]

The inability to not being able to build every government everywhere is definitely not a bug or mistake...
Each province for each faction can reach a max level or establish certain forms of government depening on socio-political historical grounds...

The Metoikia Katoikon is a complex for provinces with Hellenes and Hellenised locals already in place, so yes Massalia's region should fit in that category...

Keep in mind that certain buildings, like this one, initially were designed in another manner, which proved to be a poor representation...
Being later modified to the current system, it could've been overlooked there. Thanks for the heads up ^^

[QuintusSertorius]

Oh, absolutely; I agree there are limits on what can be built where. As you say, there are pre-requisites for some buildings representing the underlying cultures/peoples.

In this specific instance, it seems like the Phourion Laon is available in Massalia when it should be the Metoikia Katoikon instead. Incidentally this is also the case with Syrakousai and Emporion - I wonder if its throughout the west?

I should add I'm not complaining, mind; this is a brilliant, but also complex system, so things like this are about to happen at first.

[aapjes]

The indigenous outposts are supposed to be military settlements of native peoples.

I think someone said though that they are only supposed to be buildable in the east as they represent the Ptolemaioi and Seleukids recruiting natives when no Hellenic settlers are available and are used for other factions such as Hayasdan and Saba to eventually convert to eastern imperial from tribal culture.

As for the other military settlers building line, those are Hellenic settlers and will boost Hellenic culture, but they require colony points which you can currently only get from controlling a metropolis.

e: Also if you don't currently have colony points buildings which require such will not show up in the building browser.

[clone]

The inability to not being able to build every government everywhere is definitely not a bug or mistake...
Each province for each faction can reach a max level or establish certain forms of government depening on socio-political historical grounds...

The Metoikia Katoikon is a complex for provinces with Hellenes and Hellenised locals already in place, so yes Massalia's region should fit in that category...

Keep in mind that certain buildings, like this one, initially were designed in another manner, which proved to be a poor representation...
Being later modified to the current system, it could've been overlooked there. Thanks for the heads up ^^

That building was designed for military settlers in Asia. Either that is a result of your porting of Epeiros there, or most likely an unintended consequence, because I think that buildings can only convert to a single culture...

If the last is not true, we will edit it accordingly, if it is they probably will be removed from western provinces...

why use it only for asia when this buildings can be used for everyone. when i first saw that building i thought that it represents what ptolemies have done with the egyptians . capture a foreign city,bring greek settles,after you have enough garrison start recruiting the local population .a city where greeks and local are living together like in alexandria. a mix of eb 1 3 and 2 goverment
i liked in eb1 that as macedonia i could conquer rome and build a level 2 goverment (satrapy) and then i could build half greek-half roman units(if i had build thew native baracks).now when you capture a foreign city the only options are only to hellenize them or allied goverment not the satrapal goverment (between those two options) that existed in eb

[QuintusSertorius]

why use it only for asia when this buildings can be used for everyone. when i first saw that building i thought that it represents what ptolemies have done with the egyptians . capture a foreign city,bring greek settles,after you have enough garrison start recruiting the local population .a city where greeks and local are living together like in alexandria. a mix of eb 1 3 and 2 goverment

I think it was intended only for Asia (which in the Greek definition includes Egypt), because there are other military settler/colonist buildings for other regions/factions. But in this instance, it appears to be in the wrong place.

The indigenous outposts are supposed to be military settlements of native peoples.

I think someone said though that they are only supposed to be buildable in the east as they represent the Ptolemaioi and Seleukids recruiting natives when no Hellenic settlers are available and are used for other factions such as Hayasdan and Saba to eventually convert to eastern imperial from tribal culture.

As for the other military settlers building line, those are Hellenic settlers and will boost Hellenic culture, but they require colony points which you can currently only get from controlling a metropolis.

e: Also if you don't currently have colony points buildings which require such will not show up in the building browser.

It says in the description that by employing natives you speed Hellenisation.

But either way, they shouldn't be in the (far) western Mediterranean.

I've only got Small Hellenistic Poleis buildings at the moment (one in Massalia, another in Emporion) so no colony points. Waiting for those to go Greek enough to be able to upgrade it.

[Arjos]

Sorry, I meant everything east of Hellas, where the Hellenistic polities expanded...

[clone]

I think it was intended only for Asia (which in the Greek definition includes Egypt), because there are other military settler/colonist buildings for other regions/factions. But in this instance, it appears to be in the wrong place.

maybe. i am suggesting to use it different (as i suggested). if makedonians captured rome for example i thing they would do more or less what the ptolemies did.this building to represent locals that are recruited into service
the reasons i like macedonia in eb1 was
1 could build native baracks but on the same time could build level 2 goverment in a large area of land (nearly everywhere)
2 had neutral level two goverment not only fit everywhere but was also accurate (satrapia makedonike)
and so with 1+2 i could role play creating a greek empire
now there in only choise to either helenize the city or make allied

[Arjos]

That approach is very simplistic, as was EBI's, in Asia and Africa the Makedonian Dynastai were able to set developed forms of government, because there already existed complex multi-secular practices, which the Hellenistic polities preserved and adapted to them...

The idea that the Romani and Latini would accept an Hellenised Persian form of government in a matter of few years is completely fictional...
Also we cannot invent forms of government that did not exist (as the Hellenes never captured the west and formed anything more than colonies there)...

Thus you will have to hellenise the locals or allow them to keep their forms of government in the west, much like what was the common practice among Hellenistic polities...

Not that this prevents you to gain access to better troops in the west, quite the contrary...

[clone]

That approach is very simplistic, as was EBI's, in Asia and Africa the Makedonian Dynastai were able to set developed forms of government, because there already existed complex multi-secular practices, which the Hellenistic polities preserved and adapted to them...

The idea that the Romani and Latini would accept an Hellenised Persian form of government in a matter of few years is completely fictional...
Also we cannot invent forms of government that did not exist (as the Hellenes never captured the west and formed anything more than colonies there)...

Thus you will have to hellenise the locals or allow them to keep their forms of government in the west, much like what was the common practice among Hellenistic polities...

1 why egyptians accepted the greeks or the persians and the romans wouldnt accept the greeks. everything can be accepted if behind you happens to be a pointy spear
2this game i thing is about creating your own version of history plus satrapia was an accurate form of goverment.satrapia both from history and eb1 info was an decentralized city where it was rulled by a strategos so this goverment can be created everywhere

3 the reason i dislike the currect model is that either you have to hellenize a city or make it allied
a)the problem with 1 option is that campaign get boring by recruiting only greek troops,cities are lifeless and the most importand thing you dont feel that you have an empire or at least rulling other people(in eb1 i was conquering citieso only to see what different troops you could build
b)the problem with secont option is that creating in all non greek cities allied goverment is unrealistic(not only having only allied goverment is unrealist by it self ,establising democrasy in nomads is not the most accurate),you cant build all buildings and most importantly an empire is created by having subjects not allies
what i am suggesting is keeping the current system but add one third(what the ptolemis did in allexandria)
please concider something like this but if you dont could you direct me what is the name of the file that i need to change in order to change the following ( name of building,what can be recruited in the building).only the name of thew file)

[aapjes]

It says in the description that by employing natives you speed Hellenisation.

But either way, they shouldn't be in the (far) western Mediterranean.

I've only got Small Hellenistic Poleis buildings at the moment (one in Massalia, another in Emporion) so no colony points. Waiting for those to go Greek enough to be able to upgrade it.

If Hayasdan et al. do indeed use this same building line though and it's actually intended to help Hellenic culture a new building will be needed either way.

[Arjos]

If Hayasdan et al. do indeed use this same building line though and it's actually intended to help Hellenic culture a new building will be needed either way.

Why would it? The spreading of Hellenic culture in Massalia's region would be the intended goal...

[aapjes]

I'm not entirely sure because I haven't seen what goverments Hayasdan has access to after reforms but it seems this building is the only way for them to spread eastern imperial culture?

This of course isn't a problem if you can change which culture is spread based on location/faction/main culture of faction but I don't know if that's possible.