[Submod/Fix] Placement of missing Hellenistic Poleis

[QuintusSertorius]

Hey Quintus. I'll definitely give this a go when I start a new campaign (assuming I start another campaign before next major patch) -- I'm just wondering for now, is it savegame compat.?

thanks, cheers

Yes, it doesn't interact with existing saves at all, the file is only used when you generate a new game. I'm playing an old save right now with the new descr_strat.txt in.

Obviously that means it also won't apply the changes to an existing save.

[joshmahurin]

In the next patch Syrakousai will have a Hellenic Metropolis, however all the remaining will be left as is as per the decision of the faction lead. Again these can be built after you build colonies in these settlements, and I assume they already have relevant cultural percentages representing differing native populations.

[QuintusSertorius]

In the next patch Syrakousai will have a Hellenic Metropolis, however all the remaining will be left as is as per the decision of the faction lead. Again these can be built after you build colonies in these settlements, and I assume they already have relevant cultural percentages representing differing native populations.

Good news about Syrakousai.

I really don't agree with leaving them out of many of these other Greek-founded places, it doesn't seem terribly logical to have some featuring them and others not. Especially given how constraining the colony points system already is. Unnecessarily so, to my mind, at the very least you should be upgrade an existing polis by meeting the other requirements for the next tier up. Ie by increasing the Hellenistic Polities percentage and constructing the requisite structures.

What I'm saying is leave in the requirement of owning a Metropolis to found new Small Hellenistic Polis buildings, but allow those which already have them to be upgraded without colony points. Since culture change is slow, and to put up the market buildings usually requires them to have grown a lot as well.

Oh well, easy for me to submod again in the next patch.

[Arjos]

Point is all those you've listed, except Syrakousai, were already by some time moving away from being purely Hellenic in governance or were not much larger than trading emporia really...

The idea wherever there are Hellenes there must be a polis is a bit overboard...
Especially because in EBII the settlements are administrative centers for whole regions and the institutions in them have to reflect the whole population...
But as you said all easily submodable :)

[QuintusSertorius]

Point is all those you've listed, except Syrakousai, were already by same time moving away from being purely Hellenic in governance or were not much larger than trading emporia really...

The idea wherever there are Hellenes there must be a polis is a bit overboard...
Especially because in EBII the settlements are administrative centers for whole regions and the institutions in them have to reflect the whole population...
But as you said all easily submodable :)

In some instances, where the Hellenic population was distinct, but still small (or even declining), or where the political situation was shifting, on reflection I'd agree. Lilibeo was always a tentative one anyway, while there certainly were Hellenes in western Sicily, they were in a minority as contrasting the rest of the island. I can see how the recent changes to Bithynia mean Nikaia doesn't have one. I guess the decline of Olbia would justify losing it's polis. The frequency with which Histria had been dismantled could explain that.

I'm not sure what the deal is with Chersonesos and Trapezous, not a lot of information about them easily obtained.

But in others, not so much, especially Megale Hellas/Magna Graecia. Take Campania, which featured Neapolis (one of the largest cities in Megale Hellas) and Cumae (the first Greek settlement in Italia), two significant centres of Greek culture that remained so even long past assimilation into SPQR. Rhegion still has distinctly Greek features even today, it's the second-oldest colony in Italia, and was an independent republic in its own right, allied to Rome, for a long time. Messana was a Greek city until it's betrayal to the Mamertines, and even then that change was only recently in 288BC (not even a generation). So I'd argue these three still merit a Minor Hellenistic Polis, even if nothing else on my little list does.

[Arjos]

Your last paragraph has only small enclaves of Hellenes within their regions, which do not warrant a conversion for the whole population and historically were moving in the other direction or had no influence whatsoever on the demographic majority living in the hinterland...

Very similar situation for Chersonesos and Trapezous...

[QuintusSertorius]

So I guess if you want to restore Megale Hellas, you do it from Syrakousai (in the next patch) via colonies?

EDIT: Are colony points the only way you can build/upgrade a polis? The building browser seems to imply by growing your Hellenistic Polities percentage and constructing the right buildings, you should get the option to install/upgrade a Hellenistic Poleis building.