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Thread: [Submod/Fix] Placement of missing Hellenistic Poleis

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    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default [Submod/Fix] Placement of missing Hellenistic Poleis

    As I noted elsewhere, there are a lot of places missing their Hellenistic Poleis building. This means that many Hellenistic factions expanding into any of these settlements have an unnecessary wait in building them up because of the lack of the building. Sometimes it seems to randomly appear build-able, or else you have to establish a colony (which requires you to have a Metropolis and colony points) there as though it were a completely foreign place. Which doesn't make sense when almost all of them were either Greek colonies originally, or feature Greek colonies in the province more widely. Having these present will also speed your colonisation efforts more generally, since the number of colony points is related to the number of Hellenistic Poleis that you hold.

    Please note, this is not an exploit or cheat, I genuinely believe these should have been present in the first place. In the case of Syrakousai, paullus confirmed it should have been there, and was omitted. Less sure about the others, but as I said, I haven't done this at random.

    Fortunately, it's relatively easy to fix, since it's just an edit of the descr_strat.txt. Unfortunately, this isn't savegame compatible; I don't think it will corrupt or otherwise ruin a game in progress, because the file is only referred to on creating a new game. It just won't have any impact until you do create a new game.

    Changes:
    Added a Hellenistic Metropolis (polis_three) to Syrakousai.
    Added a Minor Hellenistic Polis (polis_one) to Capua, Chersonesos, Histria, Lilibeo, Messana, Nikaia, Olbia, Rhegion and Trapezous.

    How to install:
    1) Go to [M2TW directory]\mods\EBII\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign and copy descr_strat.txt
    2) Paste this somewhere safe - this is your backup in case something goes wrong.
    3) Download the updated Attachment 14289 and paste it over the original one in the directory from 1)
    4) Start a new game, the settlements noted in the change above will now have a Hellenistic Poleis in them.
    5) Profit!

    UPDATE

    Following discussion with @Arjos, I may have gone a little overboard with adding them all over the place. If anyone prefers a more constrained approach, here's an updated Attachment 14303 with a Metropolis in Syrakousai and Minor Hellenistic Poleis in Capua, Messana and Rhegion.

    UPDATE II

    Here's the Megale Hellas edition (Capua, Messana, Rhegion) for 2.01: Attachment 14399
    Last edited by QuintusSertorius; 09-15-2014 at 00:24.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR

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  2. #2
    (cmlax999) Member adishee's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Submod/Fix] Placement of missing Hellenistic Poleis

    Hey Quintus. I'll definitely give this a go when I start a new campaign (assuming I start another campaign before next major patch) -- I'm just wondering for now, is it savegame compat.?

    thanks, cheers

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    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Submod/Fix] Placement of missing Hellenistic Poleis

    Quote Originally Posted by cmlax999 View Post
    Hey Quintus. I'll definitely give this a go when I start a new campaign (assuming I start another campaign before next major patch) -- I'm just wondering for now, is it savegame compat.?

    thanks, cheers
    Yes, it doesn't interact with existing saves at all, the file is only used when you generate a new game. I'm playing an old save right now with the new descr_strat.txt in.

    Obviously that means it also won't apply the changes to an existing save.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR

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    Minister of Useless Tidbits Member joshmahurin's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Submod/Fix] Placement of missing Hellenistic Poleis

    In the next patch Syrakousai will have a Hellenic Metropolis, however all the remaining will be left as is as per the decision of the faction lead. Again these can be built after you build colonies in these settlements, and I assume they already have relevant cultural percentages representing differing native populations.



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    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Submod/Fix] Placement of missing Hellenistic Poleis

    Quote Originally Posted by joshmahurin View Post
    In the next patch Syrakousai will have a Hellenic Metropolis, however all the remaining will be left as is as per the decision of the faction lead. Again these can be built after you build colonies in these settlements, and I assume they already have relevant cultural percentages representing differing native populations.
    Good news about Syrakousai.

    I really don't agree with leaving them out of many of these other Greek-founded places, it doesn't seem terribly logical to have some featuring them and others not. Especially given how constraining the colony points system already is. Unnecessarily so, to my mind, at the very least you should be upgrade an existing polis by meeting the other requirements for the next tier up. Ie by increasing the Hellenistic Polities percentage and constructing the requisite structures.

    What I'm saying is leave in the requirement of owning a Metropolis to found new Small Hellenistic Polis buildings, but allow those which already have them to be upgraded without colony points. Since culture change is slow, and to put up the market buildings usually requires them to have grown a lot as well.

    Oh well, easy for me to submod again in the next patch.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


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    COYATOYPIKC Senior Member Flatout Minigame Champion Arjos's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Submod/Fix] Placement of missing Hellenistic Poleis

    Point is all those you've listed, except Syrakousai, were already by some time moving away from being purely Hellenic in governance or were not much larger than trading emporia really...

    The idea wherever there are Hellenes there must be a polis is a bit overboard...
    Especially because in EBII the settlements are administrative centers for whole regions and the institutions in them have to reflect the whole population...
    But as you said all easily submodable :)
    Last edited by Arjos; 09-06-2014 at 12:03.

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    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Submod/Fix] Placement of missing Hellenistic Poleis

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjos View Post
    Point is all those you've listed, except Syrakousai, were already by same time moving away from being purely Hellenic in governance or were not much larger than trading emporia really...

    The idea wherever there are Hellenes there must be a polis is a bit overboard...
    Especially because in EBII the settlements are administrative centers for whole regions and the institutions in them have to reflect the whole population...
    But as you said all easily submodable :)
    In some instances, where the Hellenic population was distinct, but still small (or even declining), or where the political situation was shifting, on reflection I'd agree. Lilibeo was always a tentative one anyway, while there certainly were Hellenes in western Sicily, they were in a minority as contrasting the rest of the island. I can see how the recent changes to Bithynia mean Nikaia doesn't have one. I guess the decline of Olbia would justify losing it's polis. The frequency with which Histria had been dismantled could explain that.

    I'm not sure what the deal is with Chersonesos and Trapezous, not a lot of information about them easily obtained.

    But in others, not so much, especially Megale Hellas/Magna Graecia. Take Campania, which featured Neapolis (one of the largest cities in Megale Hellas) and Cumae (the first Greek settlement in Italia), two significant centres of Greek culture that remained so even long past assimilation into SPQR. Rhegion still has distinctly Greek features even today, it's the second-oldest colony in Italia, and was an independent republic in its own right, allied to Rome, for a long time. Messana was a Greek city until it's betrayal to the Mamertines, and even then that change was only recently in 288BC (not even a generation). So I'd argue these three still merit a Minor Hellenistic Polis, even if nothing else on my little list does.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


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    COYATOYPIKC Senior Member Flatout Minigame Champion Arjos's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Submod/Fix] Placement of missing Hellenistic Poleis

    Your last paragraph has only small enclaves of Hellenes within their regions, which do not warrant a conversion for the whole population and historically were moving in the other direction or had no influence whatsoever on the demographic majority living in the hinterland...

    Very similar situation for Chersonesos and Trapezous...

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    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Submod/Fix] Placement of missing Hellenistic Poleis

    So I guess if you want to restore Megale Hellas, you do it from Syrakousai (in the next patch) via colonies?

    EDIT: Are colony points the only way you can build/upgrade a polis? The building browser seems to imply by growing your Hellenistic Polities percentage and constructing the right buildings, you should get the option to install/upgrade a Hellenistic Poleis building.
    Last edited by QuintusSertorius; 09-06-2014 at 12:33.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


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    COYATOYPIKC Senior Member Flatout Minigame Champion Arjos's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Submod/Fix] Placement of missing Hellenistic Poleis

    From what little I know that should be the case :)

    To bring back Hellenism in Megale Hellas you'd need to expand with an Hellenistic faction, and if you start from Syrakousai you should definitely be able to...

  11. #11
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Submod/Fix] Placement of missing Hellenistic Poleis

    I've put my less expansive version in again for 2.01 - if anyone wants the fuller one let me know and I'll update.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


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    Minister of Useless Tidbits Member joshmahurin's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Submod/Fix] Placement of missing Hellenistic Poleis

    Just for the record there is some deeper reworking in the stars for this aspect



  13. #13
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Submod/Fix] Placement of missing Hellenistic Poleis

    Quote Originally Posted by joshmahurin View Post
    Just for the record there is some deeper reworking in the stars for this aspect
    Now that's an intriguing little suggestion. I look forward to hearing more.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


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