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Thread: Neo-Nics

  1. #1

    Default Neo-Nics

    While I realize the EU is out front in this, the battle against "neo-nics" has come home (for me):

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/beek...oids-1.2757359

    The data is either inconclusive or dead certain depending on which side you reference, I admit I tend to back the bee-keepers on this one.
    Ja-mata TosaInu

  2. #2
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neo-Nics

    Bees are rather important economically in many areas, and mostly NOT for their own honey production.

    If these tests show a problem then we need to get a different pesticide out there and pull this stuff.
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  3. #3
    Member Member classical_hero's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neo-Nics

    Talk about collateral damage here. They want to kill the pests but unfortunately it is doing far more damage to those animals useful in the role of food.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Neo-Nics

    A little something from "bug people" instead of the lawsuits:

    http://www.xerces.org/neonicotinoids-and-bees/#
    Ja-mata TosaInu

  5. #5

    Default Re: Neo-Nics

    The province of Ontario (Canada) starts to get serious:

    http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Business/ID/2546550297/
    Ja-mata TosaInu

  6. #6
    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neo-Nics

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Bees are rather important economically in many areas, and mostly NOT for their own honey production.
    I have a peanut butter and honey sandwich every day after the gym. Who cares about the economy, I need that sweet, sweet nectar.
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  7. #7
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neo-Nics

    The number one cause of bee deaths, according to the botany lecture I attended last week, is destruction of habitat. Specifically meadows.

    But decreasing that means we won't get our new roads and villas, and will have to(gasp!) take the bus more often. So I guess that's not cool. Much better to ban dangerous chemicals with scary names like dihydrogen monoxide or hydric acid.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  8. #8
    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neo-Nics

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    The number one cause of bee deaths, according to the botany lecture I attended last week, is destruction of habitat. Specifically meadows.

    But decreasing that means we won't get our new roads and villas, and will have to(gasp!) take the bus more often. So I guess that's not cool. Much better to ban dangerous chemicals with scary names like dihydrogen monoxide or hydric acid.
    There are many papers confirming the toxicity of neonicotinoids for honey bees. It's not banning because of a scary looking name, its banning because the science proves it's harmful. For someone that usually likes to ask if there is scientific backing for other people's opinion, you seemed to breeze right past this.
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.

  9. #9
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neo-Nics

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    There are many papers confirming the toxicity of neonicotinoids for honey bees. It's not banning because of a scary looking name, its banning because the science proves it's harmful. For someone that usually likes to ask if there is scientific backing for other people's opinion, you seemed to breeze right past this.
    Jumping the gun, I'm afraid. We will probably have conclusive proof within a decade though. Not that I am against a cautionary approach, not at all: there's definitely enough evidence to support a ban.

    But that wasn't what I was getting at. While this chemical kills bees, it's not the major killer of bees; that's destruction of habitat. But we skip that problem entirely, because doing something about it impacts our cozy lifestyles too much. It's much easier to ban scary-sounding chemicals(and all chemicals are unnatural, remember) than it is to do what is most important: protect the habitat.

    How many rage-articles have you seen about a major construction project halted because it will destroy the habitat of some ugly flower, mushroom or frog? How much support is given to the environmentalists then?

    Once again, we are doing what is convenient rather than what is important. Ban neonicotinoids, but more importantly stop paving over flowers.
    Last edited by HoreTore; 10-08-2014 at 09:11.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  10. #10
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neo-Nics

    Honey: bee vomit
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Neo-Nics

    I agree with HoreTore: destruction of habitat is probably number one; but with reduced habitat it makes even less sense to make (even "just possibly") what is left toxic.
    And yes Pape I love bee vomit; when I learned how to make alcohol from it I loved it even more :) My decade of mead production came to an end a few years back and all the bottles are now empty; inexcusable really because the process is so easy.
    Ja-mata TosaInu

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