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  1. #1
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swedish election results are in

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    SD is not a conservative party, frags.

    'Conservative parties of Europe' refers to parties like the tories and moderatarna.
    I know, and I absolutily don't like what I see in the SD, but their existance is the effect of the faillure of multicultulti. They will only grow because it's going to be be hard to get Gustav on a 99% white school eventually. Multiculture remains something others should do, and that is why the SD is growing. It's a leftist hobby to be multicultural-minded, feels sooo good
    Last edited by Fragony; 09-17-2014 at 12:39.

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    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swedish election results are in

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    but their existance is the effect of the faillure of multicultulti.
    I'd also say the failure of the educative system and the success of EU's anti-communist propaganda (basically a combination of equating communism with fascism, as well as glamourizing the anti-communist factions of Eastern Europe, from the eyball-eating Horthy to the uprising of Prague) might have player a role.

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    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swedish election results are in

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    I know, and I absolutily don't like what I see in the SD, but their existance is the effect of the faillure of multicultulti. They will only grow because it's going to be be hard to get Gustav on a 99% white school eventually. Multiculture remains something others should do, and that is why the SD is growing. It's a leftist hobby to be multicultural-minded, feels sooo good
    SD is actually a Social Conservative party, not nationalistic. They think Sweden had something good going around the 70's, and would like to try and bring some of it back.

    They want to limit immigration to EU's recommendation levels... Hardly a racist or nationalistic view. Specially after so long having had one of the worlds most open immigration policies... Time to make sure the immigrants we already have get assimilated in the Swedish society, before we accept more massive waves of immigration, without really having a plan for how to include them in society.

    Leftist media of course paint them up as somewhere more racist than the Nazi Party... This has lead to some people joining and voting for SD for the wrong reasons... SD is a new party, and have some culling to do, to get rid of some idiots, though. I guess all new partys do.

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swedish election results are in

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    SD is actually a Social Conservative party, not nationalistic. They think Sweden had something good going around the 70's, and would like to try and bring some of it back.

    They want to limit immigration to EU's recommendation levels... Hardly a racist or nationalistic view. Specially after so long having had one of the worlds most open immigration policies... Time to make sure the immigrants we already have get assimilated in the Swedish society, before we accept more massive waves of immigration, without really having a plan for how to include them in society.
    Can only agree with that.

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    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swedish election results are in

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Can only agree with that.
    Of course, I am effin brilliant

  6. #6
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swedish election results are in

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    SD is actually a Social Conservative party, not nationalistic. They think Sweden had something good going around the 70's, and would like to try and bring some of it back.

    They want to limit immigration to EU's recommendation levels... Hardly a racist or nationalistic view. Specially after so long having had one of the worlds most open immigration policies... Time to make sure the immigrants we already have get assimilated in the Swedish society, before we accept more massive waves of immigration, without really having a plan for how to include them in society.

    Leftist media of course paint them up as somewhere more racist than the Nazi Party... This has lead to some people joining and voting for SD for the wrong reasons... SD is a new party, and have some culling to do, to get rid of some idiots, though. I guess all new partys do.
    SD is a mix of social conservatives (a lot of it from the brand known as fascism. Really, read the ideals of SD and compare to the old facist movements), immigration sceptics and outright racists. For the voters, add a large dose of people who feel malcontent with the other parties. That one gets a big boost by the outright bullying of SD from the rest of the political parties.

    It's worth pointing out that SD originated from more or less outright nazi parties (more that 20 years ago though), so that undertone of rascism has always been there. Been calling themselves social conservative since 2011.

    BTW, how are you familiar about the hospital story Kadagar? Did your draft in Boden or?
    Last edited by Ironside; 09-17-2014 at 19:09.
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    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swedish election results are in

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside View Post
    SD is a mix of social conservatives (a lot of it from the brand known as fascism. Really, read the ideals of SD and compare to the old facist movements), immigration sceptics and outright racists. For the voters, add a large dose of people who feel malcontent with the other parties. That one gets a big boost by the outright bullying of SD from the rest of the political parties.

    It's worth pointing out that SD originated from more or less outright nazi parties (more that 20 years ago though), so that undertone of rascism has always been there. Been calling themselves social conservative since 2011.

    BTW, how are you familiar about the hospital story Kadagar? Did your draft in Boden or?
    Please read the ideals and show me what is fascist or racist? Seems like you followed leftist media rather than making your own educated opinion.

    To blame SD for being racist is like blaming leftists of being Stalinists... At the end of the day, it doesnt matter one effin thing what individuals in the party thinks, as long as the partys politics is OK... Am I wrong?

    I did my army service at K4 Arvidsjaur (An Arctic Ranger is never cold... He is shaking of happiness!!)... The Swedish part of my family however originate from Luleå and Boden. I still whistle in instead of saying yes
    Last edited by Kadagar_AV; 09-17-2014 at 20:07.

  8. #8
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swedish election results are in

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    Please read the ideals and show me what is fascist or racist? Seems like you followed leftist media rather than making your own educated opinion.

    To blame SD for being racist is like blaming leftists of being Stalinists... At the end of the day, it doesnt matter one effin thing what individuals in the party thinks, as long as the partys politics is OK... Am I wrong?

    I did my army service at K4 Arvidsjaur (An Arctic Ranger is never cold... He is shaking of happiness!!)... The Swedish part of my family however originate from Luleå and Boden. I still whistle in instead of saying yes
    I'll go with this list.
    Comments are taken mostly from I've red from that 48 pages SVERIGEDEMOKRATERNAS PRINCIPPROGRAM 2011. Some points are taken from "vår politik" on the different subjects. I concluded it from earlier party manifests (Jimmy Åkesson was still the party leader at the time), where it was more obvious. They're improving on writing those kind of documents.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    1.The idea of class and the importance of agrarianism. - Storsatsning på svensk matproduktion och matkultur. +1
    2.Private ownership (score), the circulation of money (independent sek, score), the regulation of the economy by the state (some, but private interests are strongly defended, score), the idea of ethnic bourgeois class, economic self-sufficiency (not that pushing here). +1
    3.The nation and the difference between nation and state. Do I need to explain this one? ++1
    4.The attitude towards democracy and political parties. Tolerant about this one. 0
    5.The importance of political heroes, i.e. the charismatic leader. Doesn't talk about it and doesn't seem to be influencial. 0
    6.The attitude towards Tradition. Very important, increased funding. +1
    7.The attitude towards the individual and society. Civil duty is considered very important and should be expanded. +1
    8.The attitude towards equality and hierarchy. A lot of "equal, but different" attitude. The strong should help the weak (as long as the weak got valid reasons for being wweak) +0,5
    9.The attitude towards women. antiabortion and antifeminists. Men and women are born different and that's the way it should be. If (by some miracle) they behave the same in some field, SD won't oppose it. +0,5.
    10.The attitude towards religion. Free religion. Christianity got special status, due to historical ties. Don't like muslims. +0,5
    11.The attitude towards rationalism. I couldn't dig deep enough on this to be certain on the meaning. IIRC the nazis weren't big on that, but more on feelings, and SD doesn't have that claim, so 0. They claim to be realists, rather than ideologues.
    12.The attitude towards intellectualism and elitism. They don't talk about it, gives vibes of being anti intellectuals, but not enough to give a score either way. 0 13.The attitude towards the Third World. Also one I can't dig out definitions. 0


    Yes, you will have overlap with other ideologies and I suspect fascism incorperated a lot from social conservatism, but when the media guys talks about SD being (democratic) facists aren't talking about racism. Anybody calling them nazis is shooting quite a bit from the goal though. Both being big on animal rights is amusing though (SD want's a special animal rights police, so it's quite serious). I think that's a side effect of some joint value. Probably related to revitalisation of the agricultural sector as well.

    Another listing.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

    1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

    Oh yes. +1

    2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

    Not in power, but not using that one in rethorics. 0

    3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

    Partly. People without Swedish values are a threat to national unity. +0,5

    4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

    Yes. Draft going back, and everyone makes some kind of civic duty. +1

    5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

    By Swedish standards, yes. Gay adoption is a big nono. Biological mother and father is the way to go, as much as possible. +1

    6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

    Not in power. 0. The conspiracyish parts of the party would do it, if in power.

    7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

    Sometimes. The most controversial campaign messages plays on fear of the stranger. Officially, assimilation is the prefered method. +0,5

    8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed
    to the government's policies or actions.

    Eh. I don't remember them using christian rethoric. Christianity got to have a special status though. +0,5

    9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

    Not in power. They're pro corperations though. 0

    10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

    Not in power. Not in rethoric. 0

    11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

    Not in power. Does have the tone of being the realistic party of the people against the ideological intellectuals. Art is judged, Swedish art that's constructive, is most worthy of preservation. +0,5

    12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

    Not in power. They're tough on crimes. Increase the punishments and don't toddle with the criminals. +0,5

    13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

    Not in power. Doesn't have rethoric that would lead into Cronyism and Corruption. 0

    14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

    Not in power. Aren't trying to fraud either. 0


    I'm from Luleå, so I'm familiar with the hospital. I didn't follow the politics around it, was too young.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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  9. #9
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swedish election results are in

    Sorry Ironside, but the crapalert is ringing in full volume on your last source.

    It is not a quality source, it's a simple circulated chain-email written by some random dude in the US to attack Bush. "Dr Lawrence Britt" is not a doctor, nor called "Lawrence Britt".

    Look up Roger Griffin for a definition of fascism, and Carl Joachim Freidrich and Zbigniew Brzezinski for totalitarianism(which SD also qualifies for).
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  10. #10
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swedish election results are in

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Sorry Ironside, but the crapalert is ringing in full volume on your last source.

    It is not a quality source, it's a simple circulated chain-email written by some random dude in the US to attack Bush. "Dr Lawrence Britt" is not a doctor, nor called "Lawrence Britt".

    Look up Roger Griffin for a definition of fascism, and Carl Joachim Freidrich and Zbigniew Brzezinski for totalitarianism(which SD also qualifies for).
    Oh, Ironside, be certain to check out Zbig's daughter. Lass may be a thorough-going leftie, but she is quite easy on the eyes.

    And smart, and accomplished, etc. for those who bother about such things.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

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  11. #11
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swedish election results are in

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    I know, and I absolutily don't like what I see in the SD, but their existance is the effect of the faillure of multicultulti. They will only grow because it's going to be be hard to get Gustav on a 99% white school eventually. Multiculture remains something others should do, and that is why the SD is growing. It's a leftist hobby to be multicultural-minded, feels sooo good
    Is that why SD is strongest in areas where there is less immigration...?

    Stockholm, for example, has little support for SD. Their largest growth in this election was among the depopulated rural north(excluding the population centres), where you are not likely to encounter many immigrants.

    As always, it is those with the least experience with immigrants who fear them most.

    To say that SD, the party who actually had to ban nazi paraphernalia from their meetings and rallies, is NOT a nationalist party is just silly. They are literally a relabeled nazi party.
    Last edited by HoreTore; 09-17-2014 at 14:57.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  12. #12
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swedish election results are in

    Do most European nations actually ban Nazi parties?

    I have always wondered about that. It strikes me that social marginalization is the better route. We have that here in the USA. Consequently, those folks who self-identify as Nazis in this country despite the social ostracism involved have clearly labeled themselves as malfing idiots and trouble-makers.

    Makes it far easier to identify them and to have the authorities quietly watching them -- almost as though they have volunteered to wear their equivalents of little yellow stars of David.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

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  13. #13
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swedish election results are in

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Do most European nations actually ban Nazi parties?

    I have always wondered about that. It strikes me that social marginalization is the better route. We have that here in the USA. Consequently, those folks who self-identify as Nazis in this country despite the social ostracism involved have clearly labeled themselves as malfing idiots and trouble-makers.

    Makes it far easier to identify them and to have the authorities quietly watching them -- almost as though they have volunteered to wear their equivalents of little yellow stars of David.
    Only Austria, Germany and a couple of the former soviets as far as I know do that.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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