A list of weird things i picked up while playing Numidia

[Qvintvs]

Greetings EB2 team! First of all, i must say i'm really thankful for all the great work. I have really liked the first EB and when i heard that you have started working on a second one i have been checking how your progress is going. You still have a way to go before it's as good as the first one, but i'm going to help you in what i think would be easiest for me. (i also know how to read and work with the character traits file, but i'm just an amateur so it's probably better for me to stay out of this)

Anyway, here's a list of weird things i picked up while playing Numidia which you might want to take a look at to see if they are working the way they were intended. I've read the thread with things that you've already discovered and not report, so if any of them fit into this category, my apologies.

I'm playing EB 2.01 with v3 campaign AI and character traits hotfix. And as you could see from the title, of course i'm playing Numidia too.

-While this is most certainly working as intended, the tribute Numidia gets from Carthage can be seriously overpowered when it adds up. Not everyone knows this, but the description in the Numidian tribal government means you will receive 1000 mnai for every type of that government you have as long as you are on peace. You see, you start receiving it agan if you get a ceasefire with them, which they offered to me themselves shortly after i took 5 of their cities surrounding my starting area. (their mainland being defended very poorly is another question) You can establish nomadic governments in some of them again, and here you go if you accept the ceasefire - tons of gold which is probably even more than their income at that point, if not at the beginning of the game, even if you simply capture all their mainland. Perhaps something should be done about it? Like, for example, once you reach a certain amount of settlements, (i believe you can capture 4 without treading on their territory in which you can install that government) amount of tribute you receive is lowered by half...

-In the endless desert southeast of your capital, there's a nomad camp called Garama. I know absolutely nothing about how that part of the world was such a long time ago, but they have their own infantry, which appears to be absolutely terrible, because they are skirmishers with only 2 melee attack but a whole 242 upkeep. Maybe that'd be alright, but in my own territory i can recruit Numidian skirmishers who only have 140 upkeep but a whole 8 or 9 attack while their other stats are more or less same in that regard and only disadvantage they have is only having 90 men compared to 120 a Garamantine infantry unit has. As such, there is absolutely no reason to recruit Garamantine Infantry except for roleplay. On that note, pretty much every Numidian foot unit has a high melee attack value, what's up with that? From the descriptions it sounds like every foot unit other than Numidian Infantry should have their melee combat performance lowered because they are skirmish units while Numidian Infantry are like frontline infantry. But then again, what do i know?

-Once i captured Carthage and installed a closely allied oligarchy in it, i found out that the local hoplites have a replenishment time of 1 season. When i tried playing Carthage to check it their replenishment time was much longer so it has to be a bug.

-It appears to me that Maure infantry from the region still can't get their javelins right, with only a few people throwing at once if at all. Would be nice if someone could investigate the issue. Numidian infantry and skirimishers seem to be throwing them properly.

-There are a few pathing issues in neigbouring nomad camps, like Kirtan - it's hard to move into the "town square" from different spots, some units appear to somehow get stuck and not follow any orders from them on. What's worse - parts of some units for the defender manage to hopelessly get stuck in place, unable to do anything but wait till i take that square, which is not that easy thanks to the pathing issues. Look at screenshot below to see what i mean - it's actually only a part of that unit while the rest ran to the square to fight me when i finally managed to get an unit to a flank - that's some nice AI strategic thinking by the way, thanks to whoever made that battle AI!



I hope my report has been useful to you and will help you make EB2 even better. Good luck!

[Not_a_Strategist_yet]

-It appears to me that Maure infantry from the region still can't get their javelins right, with only a few people throwing at once if at all. Would be nice if someone could investigate the issue. Numidian infantry and skirimishers seem to be throwing them properly.

I'll look into it to see If I can fix. Had a similar thing with Katioi again even though in custom battle was all ok once the formation was disrupted because units were again out of range.
Maybe infantry can also be given a boost of 20% to the max speed they now use so their javelins can also be fired when formation is disrupted a bit or enemies withdraw a bit and not charge.

Will let you know if it fixes it.

[Ibrahim]

yeah, it may have to come down to the use of better animations, as well as fixes to D_P

anyways:

On that note, pretty much every Numidian foot unit has a high melee attack value, what's up with that? From the descriptions it sounds like every foot unit other than Numidian Infantry should have their melee combat performance lowered because they are skirmish units while Numidian Infantry are like frontline infantry. But then again, what do i know?

has to do with the weapons they had at the time they were first statted (same with the garamantenes). Am in fact going over them now, to see to it that they are indeed applicable. EDIT: after implementing a new formation for the cavalry (Polybius to the rescue again ), and a do-over of unit spacings for the "barbarians".

[Not_a_Strategist_yet]

https://www.sendspace.com/file/r22110

Plz try this version of descr projectile and see if it at least improves the issue.
It simply has 20% higher top speed for javelins so they can also be used when an enemy gets slightly out of range while unit is firing.

But unfortunatelly this is as far as one can go with descr projectile.
So if it does not fix it even partially then it has to be sth else wrong.

Btw @Ibrahim would it be possible to use the animation the prec units have for the skirmisher units also? It is simply awsome and works every time

[Qvintvs]

After trying it a few more times without using the modified file it seems the problem might be different from i thought it to be, if it is at all
That is to say...
This "problem" actually happens with all units who skirmish instead of throwing their javelins before charge in the region. Their throwing range is smaller than the units who throw them before charging, and while they don't throw them all at once, all of them appear to do it eventually. (however, it does seem that is sometimes a little buggy and the order to fire keeps cancelling itself, although it might be related to that i was using the crew of some carthaginian ballistae as target practice to test it) They also simply seem to have a lot more javelins...but i have also noted cases when they do the throwing animation but don't actually do anything (something like this happened even in R:TW, i think when trying to make a ranged unit near a wall fire projectiles at something on the other side of a wall?)

Anyway i have stopped testing that for now in case that turns out not to have been a problem at all anymore.

[V.T. Marvin]

Thanks for the feedback!

-While this is most certainly working as intended, the tribute Numidia gets from Carthage can be seriously overpowered when it adds up. Not everyone knows this, but the description in the Numidian tribal government means you will receive 1000 mnai for every type of that government you have as long as you are on peace. You see, you start receiving it agan if you get a ceasefire with them, which they offered to me themselves shortly after i took 5 of their cities surrounding my starting area. (their mainland being defended very poorly is another question) You can establish nomadic governments in some of them again, and here you go if you accept the ceasefire - tons of gold which is probably even more than their income at that point, if not at the beginning of the game, even if you simply capture all their mainland. Perhaps something should be done about it? Like, for example, once you reach a certain amount of settlements, (i believe you can capture 4 without treading on their territory in which you can install that government) amount of tribute you receive is lowered by half...

Good point! I have not thought about this scenario when Numidia actually gains upper hand and completely dominates the Carthage. We really need to provide for such eventuality, because the script was really intended for small - yet potentially dangerous - Numidia neighbouring Carthaginian behemoth. It was meant to provide an incentive for the player not to blitz Carthage early on, but rather to enjoy a period of peaceful build-up of the infrastructure and expanding into the desert free provinces before taking on the coastal superpower.

-Once i captured Carthage and installed a closely allied oligarchy in it, i found out that the local hoplites have a replenishment time of 1 season. When i tried playing Carthage to check it their replenishment time was much longer so it has to be a bug.

Bug it is.

EDIT:
In the next release both these "weirdnesses" will be corrected. The tribute will come in three sizes depending on how much the Carthaginian empire shrinks.

[Ibrahim]

https://www.sendspace.com/file/r22110

Plz try this version of descr projectile and see if it at least improves the issue.
It simply has 20% higher top speed for javelins so they can also be used when an enemy gets slightly out of range while unit is firing.

But unfortunatelly this is as far as one can go with descr projectile.
So if it does not fix it even partially then it has to be sth else wrong.

Btw @Ibrahim would it be possible to use the animation the prec units have for the skirmisher units also? It is simply awsome and works every time

yep--am looking into modifying the files here, and it is in the testing stage. we'll see how it goes: works well for the Euzonoi; why not the akontistai?

right now in the trunk build we have another animation set that is stationary, but works well, and is being used, at least as a temporary fix.