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Thread: [Suggestion] Romani - Imperium

  1. #1

    Default [Suggestion] Romani - Imperium

    While this might not be entirely, technically "realistic", I propose this : After a character becomes Consul for the first time, grant him permanent Imperium.
    Let's face it, 8 turns of Imperium is nothing for any sort of campaign in the actual game. Even sieging one province really close to Rome, if you want to starve them out it's a miracle your Consular army's commander still has Imperium by the time the settlement starves out or they sally out in desperation, which is really quite silly.

    It might not be entirely historical in a way, but at the same time it makes a lot of sense. Proconsuls were the oldest, most esteemed veterans of politics and likely Roman warfare. They're meant to be trusted to govern Provinces for long periods (sometimes many years), and serve as Generals for a lengthy campaign if need be, it's not functional to cycle a Consul with an ex Consul in the middle of a campaign. I do love the idea of Imperium, the immersion it gives and the whole Cursus Honorum going on and the bonuses you get and its rewards for taking the hassle of cycling your Generals back to Rome and only having proper Imperium holding ones leading armies, I just think it should be given more practical thought.

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  2. #2
    EBII Bricklayer Member V.T. Marvin's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Suggestion] Romani - Imperium

    That's actually a very good idea that might be the perfect middle ground between the two extremes - on one hand strict but game-limiting mechanism we have now and free-for-all vanilla approach.

    Quick fix how to achieve this would adding a single condition to the script in EDCT:
    Code:
    ;------------------------------------------
    Trigger Player_Magistrate_Loses_Imperium_after_Term_Expires
      WhenToTest CharacterTurnStart
    
      Condition FactionType f_rome
            and CharacterIsLocal
            and AgentType = family
            and Trait Imperium > 1
            and Trait Praetor < 2
            and Trait Consul < 2
            and Trait RomanRank < 5
    
      Affects Imperium -1  Chance  100
    Do not use default windows notepad, but rather Notepad++ to make this change. Odds are the change will not be save-game compatible.
    Last edited by V.T. Marvin; 10-25-2014 at 15:13.

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  3. #3

    Default Re: [Suggestion] Romani - Imperium

    Cheers, it's good to see a Dev agrees, I felt somewhat afraid you'd laugh this off as me being a pansy that can't handle realism. :P
    But I agree, I really like the restrictions and strategies you must adapt to moving around armies with an Imperium-holding Commander, and then again, I don't see a problem with rewarding people for babysitting Family Members through the Cursus Honorum to then get more reliable Imperium.

  4. #4
    Urwendur Ūrībźl Senior Member Mouzafphaerre's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: [Suggestion] Romani - Imperium


    Done

    Firing up an SPQR campaign to see how it fares
    Ja mata Tosa Inu-sama, RIP Hore Tore & Adrian II

    Mouzafphaerre is known elsewhere as Urwendil/Urwendur/Kibilturg...
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  5. #5
    EBII Bricklayer Member V.T. Marvin's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Suggestion] Romani - Imperium

    Thank you Mouzafphaere, please let me know how it works.

  6. #6

    Default Re: [Suggestion] Romani - Imperium

    Oh, how rude I was. I've tried your addition to the script VT Martin, and been playing for 120 turns now, it works exactly as intended and I quite like it this way, thanks a lot!

    I think it's perfect because you still have to care for managing Imperium carefully for the majority of their lives, 16 to 40'ish. Only then do they become men with permanent Imperium, appropriate to govern a province or lead more long-term campaigns.
    As someone else mentioned, I think it's also the most realistic option in the sense that Roman senators never really became Consuls more than once in their lives, and it was even frowned upon. Up until the days of the Gaius Marius six consecutive Consulships scandal this wasn't a thing, ever. So it feels very awkward to have your characters be Consuls just for the sake of Imperium like 5 times in their lives, especially on such a young and more principled Republic, quite silly.

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  7. #7
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: [Suggestion] Romani - Imperium

    Quote Originally Posted by Harkon View Post
    As someone else mentioned, I think it's also the most realistic option in the sense that Roman senators never really became Consuls more than once in their lives, and it was even frowned upon. Up until the days of the Gaius Marius six consecutive Consulships scandal this wasn't a thing, ever. So it feels very awkward to have your characters be Consuls just for the sake of Imperium like 5 times in their lives, especially on such a young and more principled Republic, quite silly.
    While I agree five times is extreme, repeated consulships were by no means unheard of in the early republic. Check out Wikipedia's list of Consuls: there were quite a few of these during the third century BC. Fabius Maximus Cunctator actually was consul five times (in addition to being dictator on two occasions).

    Most of these were during the first and second Punic wars, but the practice was not unheard of afterwards. It's only around 150 B.C. that repeated consulships disappear, until the rise of Marius in 107 B.C. (and an exception was made for Scipio the Younger in 134).


    So, while you do have a point, the Roman system was more flexible than you think. The strict regulation of the Cursus Honorum actually post-dates the second Punic war. It wasn't a permanent feature of the Roman republic, as many people assume.
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  8. #8
    Member Member Poppis's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Suggestion] Romani - Imperium

    I like this compromise. Hope to see it in the next version.

  9. #9

    Default Re: [Suggestion] Romani - Imperium

    I also like this compromise, the current position forces Generals to fight with 'Relinquished Imperium', and I do not even know what the de-merits of that trait are.
    Last edited by Pelast; 11-18-2014 at 23:33. Reason: sp

  10. #10

    Default Re: [Suggestion] Romani - Imperium

    -Morale and -2 Commands Stars when attacking with an "Imperium Relinquished" General.

  11. #11
    Urwendur Ūrībźl Senior Member Mouzafphaerre's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Suggestion] Romani - Imperium


    Quote Originally Posted by V.T. Marvin View Post
    Thank you Mouzafphaere, please let me know how it works.
    Midterms etc. intervening I fell apart quite a while and on my return I discovered that one or another of my tweaks broke the mod Will reinstall, re-remod and playtest ASAP
    Ja mata Tosa Inu-sama, RIP Hore Tore & Adrian II

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  12. #12

    Default Re: [Suggestion] Romani - Imperium

    Quote Originally Posted by Harkon View Post
    -Morale and -2 Commands Stars when attacking with an "Imperium Relinquished" General.
    Thanks for that Harkon, it explains much to me, I was never such a bad General in EBI.

  13. #13

    Default Re: [Suggestion] Romani - Imperium

    Quote Originally Posted by V.T. Marvin View Post
    That's actually a very good idea that might be the perfect middle ground between the two extremes - on one hand strict but game-limiting mechanism we have now and free-for-all vanilla approach.

    Quick fix how to achieve this would adding a single condition to the script in EDCT:
    Code:
    ;------------------------------------------
    Trigger Player_Magistrate_Loses_Imperium_after_Term_Expires
      WhenToTest CharacterTurnStart
    
      Condition FactionType f_rome
            and CharacterIsLocal
            and AgentType = family
            and Trait Imperium > 1
            and Trait Praetor < 2
            and Trait Consul < 2
            and Trait RomanRank < 5
    
      Affects Imperium -1  Chance  100
    Do not use default windows notepad, but rather Notepad++ to make this change. Odds are the change will not be save-game compatible.
    hey mate im a noob please enlighten me where is the script located ? how is it named? thank you man i hated the fact with imperium renewing after few rounds

  14. #14
    EBII Bricklayer Member V.T. Marvin's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Suggestion] Romani - Imperium

    Sorry for late reply.

    EDCT refers to the file "export_data_character_traits.txt" which you will find in your installation in the [M2TW:K]mods\ebii\data folder. Simply search for "Trigger Player_Magistrate_Loses_Imperium_after_Term_Expires" and paste the line above in blue to the code. Please do not use the default windows notepad, but rather use free and reliable text editor Notaped++.

    Best regards, have fun with the game!

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