A Thank You, on the Occasion of Veteran's -- Armistice Day

[Seamus Fermanagh]

All gave some; some gave all.

Today is the day set aside by many countries, at least in the West, to honor their military veterans. As you students of history will know, the day was chosen because at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month of 1918 an armistice brought and end to the active fighting in "The War to End All Wars." We all know the sad irony of that label.

I hope you will join me in honoring those veterans -- living and among the majority -- for their service. Most of you, rightly, find war outside of video games to be abhorrent and many of you disdain the very idea of nationalism. You may be leery of a day which seems to celebrate militarism and violence, but that is only the trappings of service that make such rollicking movies and stirring stories.

We honor their service.

Many volunteered while others were forced to serve -- but they served. Some served bravely and beyond all expectations, others poorly, not quite able to cope with the horrors they faced. Most just served. Dreaming of home, of a return to their lives, of the communities they had left behind. Some never returned home, others returned scarred and battered, most returned unscathed -- but not unmarked. We asked of them a service -- to take up arms and face others, mostly like themselves and sometimes to harm those other selves on the far side of some 'front line.' We asked, they served....and they always bear the burden of that service for us.

So I ask you to honor their service. Not the jingoisms of their era, or the causes they served, or the sometimes silly notions that drove this conflict or that. I ask you to honor their service to their communities; rendered in good faith at a price so that others in that community need not bear it.

All gave some; some gave all.



To the veterans among us, I thank you. On at least one level, your service, you are a better person than I. To you, and all those others who have joined the majority, I wish Godspeed....and peace.

JEM3



And now a few gems from others much more creative than I:

McRae's "In Flanders Fields" (recited on youtube)

Gelentke's "To Soldiers of the Great War" (English text, did not find the original in German; pm me with link and I will attach)

Bogel's "And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda" sung by John Williamson

Gannon/Crosby's 1943 hit "I'll Be Home for Christmas"

Waters' "Gunners Dream"

and my personal favorite,

Bogel's "Green Fields of France"

[Husar]

I have mixed feelings about this, especially since this tradition seems to be something from / for the victorious countries and here in the Rhineland particularly, it marks the beginning of the carnival season. Carnival itself started here as a mockery of Prussian militarism (so apparently before that war that ended on the same date). Nowadays carnival is mostly very silly though, so I will use the opportunity to thank those who served for good reasons and especially the ones who kept their heart and also served the communities in the countries they were stationed in. We have one on this board who impressed me with what he tried to do for the children in Afghanistan. For this kind of service everyone can and should be thankful IMO.

[Brenus]

Think of them. They went to fish in the same river than me, in the same place, under the same trees. They walked the same path in the forest, smelt the same flowers or the smell of the ground after the storm, after the thunder and the lightnings, had the same sun on their shoulders at the same place, felt the rain and took shelter in the same barn or tree, near the river, at the foot of the hill, near the forest. They watched the sunsets on the pearls of water on the spiderwebs glittering in the new sun. They were the same age than me when I did all these.
The 4th of August 1914, the bells rung and they went by foot, as the peasants they were (and I was) to the answer to the call to arms.
Most of them never came back, some who came back never really did.

"Honneur et Patrie" is on our flags.


http://soutien67.free.fr/histoire/pa..._image_WW1.png

Song: Death. Unfortunatly with stupid pictures.
http://youtu.be/QyHqUdvRrrE?list=RDQyHqUdvRrrE

http://static.lexpress.fr/medias_782...18_4005797.jpg

Song: Can't translate. Like March of the poorest/destitute.
http://youtu.be/dMcBeP-qV1s

http://www.lepoint.fr/images/2013/11...pg_1865003.JPG

To the Dead
http://youtu.be/NPTkrUt1m3I

[Sarmatian]

So I ask you to honor their service. Not the jingoisms of their era, or the causes they served, or the sometimes silly notions that drove this conflict or that. I ask you to honor their service to their communities; rendered in good faith at a price so that others in that community need not bear it.

I can get behind that.

[HoreTore]

I'll happily honour a conscript; never an enlisted man.

[Crandar]

Word War I is fondly remained here. We had fewer dead than the Austrorussians had in Austerlitz, but our ccountry was doubled in size.
Something like Bulgaria in the second one.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I'll happily honour a conscript; never an enlisted man.

If you can't be respectful, bog off.

All my relative who were fit for it enlisted, because they knew they had to expose themselves to the same dangers everyone else was facing.

My Great Grandfather was enlisted in the army before the war and my Grandfather was a reservist, he spent the entire war protecting the South of England from German Bombers as ADGB, he had bombs dropped on him more than once and he went to his grave with shapnel still in his spine.

Edit: Point of Order, the Armistice came into effect at 1100 11/11/1914, not 1111 11/11/1914.

[Strike For The South]

I'll happily honour a conscript; never an enlisted man.

Insert Jerking off gif here

[Fragony]

My favorite https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rgtsg7QXV7Y

Was it for this the clay grew tall?
Oh what made fatuous sunbeams toil, to break earth's sleep at all?

Powerfull.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

If you can't be respectful, bog off.

All my relative who were fit for it enlisted, because they knew they had to expose themselves to the same dangers everyone else was facing.

My Great Grandfather was enlisted in the army before the war and my Grandfather was a reservist, he spent the entire war protecting the South of England from German Bombers as ADGB, he had bombs dropped on him more than once and he went to his grave with shapnel still in his spine.

Edit: Point of Order, the Armistice came into effect at 1100 11/11/1914, not 1111 11/11/1914.

I was unaware of that last. I will edit the OP to reflect the correct time.

[drone]

Edit: Point of Order, the Armistice came into effect at 1100 11/11/1914, not 1111 11/11/1914.

Short war then.

[Brenus]

"I'll happily honour a conscript; never an enlisted man." So I suggest a trip to the Ossuaire of Douaumont (from "os", bones) where the un-identified remains of thousand are gathered, and start to pick which ones you will honour and the one you won't.

www.verdun-douaumont.com/?lang=en

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douaumont_Ossuary

[Greyblades]

I'll happily honour a conscript; never an enlisted man.

Others may dance around it but I cant be bothered; you're being a bleeding idiot.

[Fragony]

Talk about bleeding, kinda angry at everything lately? It should take no more than 3 days for most women usually, or aren't you female but a man who is permanently having a period? EVOLUTION! I am sure everybody understands how you feel.

Chocolate ice is on me.

[Greyblades]

Huh, when Strike does it he's thanked, when I do it I get hounded by a teenage albatross.

Is there something about texans that makes bluntness charming?

[Fragony]

Because Strike doesn't take himself all that seriously and is naturally likable. We can't all be social tigers, it can be noticed even from a screen, when he does it it's funny, when you do it it's sad.

Enough talk, give me your lust and your sorrow

[a completely inoffensive name]

Huh, when Strike does it he's thanked, when I do it I get hounded by a teenage albatross.

It's because you, like me, take things too serious.

[Husar]

Huh, when Strike does it he's thanked, when I do it I get hounded by a teenage albatross.

Is there something about texans that makes bluntness charming?

Just as I try to avoid personal attacks myself, I try not to thank others for handing them out before they get a warning.
And the sole reason for posting a post should not be to receive thanks, it makes you look desperate and I might feel forced to show compassion or throw you some change, disgusting.

On the topic of who to thank and who not to thank, I will just say that it is of course a complicated issue, like most things involving violent humans. I don't think that most people here envision someone who eagerly signed up for an SS death squad when they thank all those who served. And at the same time, HoreTore may actually be thankful for the Iraqi soldiers who tried to resist American imperialism.
I could go on until everyone hates me, but I won't. I just think it's not a topic for huge blanket statements in either direction.

[Montmorency]

The problem with Horetore's statement is not that it goes too far, but that it doesn't go far enough.

The conscript is no different from the enlisted soldier. They both offer their bodies up as weapons of the war in fact.

Horetore just likes conscripts because he was one himself. Really, there's no justification for dissociating them in the present respect.

Husar, don't thank me for this post. The sole reason for having a profile here should not be for you to Thank my posts, it makes you look desperate and I might feel forced to show compassion or Thank you myself, disgusting.

[Greyblades]

Just as I try to avoid personal attacks myself, I try not to thank others for handing them out before they get a warning.
And the sole reason for posting a post should not be to receive thanks, it makes you look desperate and I might feel forced to show compassion or throw you some change, disgusting.

Wait are you condeming me specifically or making a general declaration? Assuming the former: I reject the implication that I'm fishing for compliments; I fully believe HoreTore is being an idiot and a combination of mental fatigue and uncertainty of his seriousness makes me unwilling to explain the numerous and obvious reasons he is being an idiot. That I have attracted ire while others doing the same thing have gained reverance is disconcerting enough to require comment.

It's because you, like me, take things too serious.

I am ever in awe of those who can maintain even the facade of optimism and irreverance when discussing backroom matters. At least the ones who do so without seeming stupid or insane.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Wait are you condeming me specifically or making a general declaration? Assuming the former: I reject the implication that I'm fishing for compliments; I fully believe HoreTore is being an idiot and a combination of mental fatigue and uncertainty of his seriousness makes me unwilling to explain the numerous and obvious reasons he is being an idiot. That I have attracted ire while others doing the same thing have gained reverance is disconcerting enough to require comment.

It's the way you go about it that matters. When you get angry and make serious replies to stupid posts, it makes you seem petty and the very act of engaging with it implies that you are on the same level. When others respond to stupid posts in a much more flippant way, it makes them seem cool and aloof - almost as if they transcend the topic, or that they are too good to engage with it.

You need to learn how to be cool, man.

[Husar]

Wait are you condeming me specifically or making a general declaration? Assuming the former: I reject the implication that I'm fishing for compliments; I fully believe HoreTore is being an idiot and a combination of mental fatigue and uncertainty of his seriousness makes me unwilling to explain the numerous and obvious reasons he is being an idiot. That I have attracted ire while others doing the same thing have gained reverance is disconcerting enough to require comment.

Are you a beggar? No? Then maybe the throwing some change part was a hint at hyperbole, or maybe it wasn't, confusing.

As for ire and reverance, it's best to be humble in this popularity context. I can't even pull off hyperbole, humor, sarcasm, etc. myself so take it from someone with loads of experience that it is not worth getting worked up over. Just let the other pretend that you are a troll and keep "trolling" them. It's not like talking about an issue makes it go away, it just meakes everyone laugh at you or hate you even more.

Montmorency has a point in that concepts are also volunteers in a way, because there are always other choices, such as working to abolish conscription, accepting the penalty for not going etc. See following statement.

All my relative who were fit for it enlisted, because they knew they had to expose themselves to the same dangers everyone else was facing.

Dangers that only existed because people on the other side signed up to kill your relatives. And they only signed up because your older relatives had already signed up to kill them etc.
One world government would solve these problems until we find aliens that sit on a load of oil.

[HoreTore]

someone who eagerly signed up for an SS death squad

Indeed.

[Montmorency]

If a death squad is a squad that deals out death, then what would a suicide squad be?

A Shtrafbat is the closest thing I can come up with.

[HoreTore]

They both offer their bodies up as weapons of the war in fact.

True. However, I am willing to cut the conscripts some slack, seeing as they had more limitations in their choice than others.

[Greyblades]

It's the way you go about it that matters. When you get angry and make serious replies to stupid posts, it makes you seem petty and the very act of engaging with it implies that you are on the same level. When others respond to stupid posts in a much more flippant way, it makes them seem cool and aloof - almost as if they transcend the topic, or that they are too good to engage with it.

You need to learn how to be cool, man.

...Damnit, this again? Ok, fine, I need to suffer fools with less hostility, I get that, but we have Kadagar, total_relism, Fragony and numerous other people popping in and out of this forum saying absurdly offensive and/or stupid things with complete sincerity every other day. I dont mean "trickle down economics work" I mean "women are inferior" kinda stuff. I've come to expect the people I used to consider reasonable turn out seemingly irrational at times, so how am I supposed to know anymore when people aren't being serious about these things when there's no indication of joking?

[Rhyfelwyr]

...Damnit, this again? Ok, fine, I need to suffer fools with less hostility, I get that, but we have Kadagar, total_relism, Fragony and numerous other people popping in and out of this forum saying absurdly offensive and/or stupid things with complete sincerity every other day. And by stupid I dont mean "trickle down economics work" I mean "Blacks/women/gays are inferior" kinda stuff. I've come to expect the people I used to consider reasonable turn out seemingly irrational at times, so how am I supposed to know anymore when people aren't being serious about these things when there's no indication of joking?

The problem is you have stopped being rational and are flying about in a rage lashing out at everybody these days. You need to stand back, take a breath, think about what the other person actually means.

I'll go with the example of the abortion thread. You got enraged by Fragony's comments, which admittedly seem at first glance to be pretty stupid - most obviously when he said that he knew he was being a hypocrite by adopting a position he didn't really believe in. Now, you opted to take his comments in a literal manner, and as a result got angry, instead of thinking about what he actually meant. This is not the best approach when you are dealing with somebody whose English is not perfect, and who generally is quite cryptic in his writing style.

By taking a step back and trying to get where Frags was coming from, I concluded that he meant that while from a scientific perspective and a consideration of the wider issues of the mother's health/rights, he could not articulate an argument against abortion; at a more visceral level (gut-instinct perhaps), he found it to be repulsive. Hence him calling himself a hypocrite. And I think it is fair to say that that is not a stupid position to take.

[Husar]

...Damnit, this again? Ok, fine, I need to suffer fools with less hostility, I get that, but we have Kadagar, total_relism, Fragony and numerous other people popping in and out of this forum saying absurdly offensive and/or stupid things with complete sincerity every other day. I dont mean "trickle down economics work" I mean "women are inferior" kinda stuff. I've come to expect the people I used to consider reasonable turn out seemingly irrational at times, so how am I supposed to know anymore when people aren't being serious about these things when there's no indication of joking?

You just don't have the cool-gene.
Accept your genetical inferiority with dignity and take solace in the fact that you deserve a well-paid job as a white male.

[Strike For The South]

True. However, I am willing to cut the conscripts some slack, seeing as they had more limitations in their choice than others.

You could have done a million other things. Your distinction is solely made to make you feel better about yourself.

No one here is celebrating the SS death squad member or the Iraqi on acid bath duty. To reduce what this day is to the most depraved in humanity is really telling. There is no point in preaching to the stubborn

[HoreTore]

Your distinction is solely made to make you feel better about yourself.

If that makes you feel better about yourself, sure.

I consider conscription just as worthless as any other kind of service, btw. Still, the peasant conscript hordes of the Tsar did not have much of a say in their situation...