Ukraine Thread

[Crandar]

What exactly are you trying to achieve, Girlandir? To imply that the USSR=Nazi Germany, because of Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact and similarities between propaganda posters?

Trust me, you aren't going to convince anyone that hasn't subscribed to Breitbart and is more mentally developed than a 5-year old.
To give you an example, would you believe that France and the UK are the same as Nazi Germany, if I posted that?


Or that capitalism=Nazism, because capitalist Finland or Hungary were allied with the Germans?



Or that the Ukrainians are worse than the Nazis?

WARNING: Shocking content.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ly_1941%29.jpg


Man, that was pretty nasty, even the SS blushed in embarrassment. Still, not going to convince you, just like you aren't going to convince us, so please, don't waste your and our precious time, spamming irrelevant pictures.

[Gilrandir]

What exactly are you trying to achieve, Girlandir? To imply that the USSR=Nazi Germany, because of Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact and similarities between propaganda posters?

Trust me, you aren't going to convince anyone that hasn't subscribed to Breitbart and is more mentally developed than a 5-year old.

I have no idea what Girlandir is trying to achieve. When I meet her I'll ask.

As for my point, I made it clear quite a long time ago:

1. Similarities between the Nazi and Soviet regimes are much deeper than the outward manifestations of them. Both resulted in millions of victims, only the reasons for killing people were different.

2. WWII is far from evil (aka as Gemany) vs good (Western allies and the USSR) fight. There were other sides to the conflict which supported neither or fought against both.

3. It is useless to claim that some nations were more guilty of collaborating with nazis. At some period of time eventually EVERYBODY who later emerged as the good collaborated with those who eventually emerged as the evil. And vice versa, those who initially supported Gemany changed their mind and fought the evil as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague..._ROA_defection:

During the march south, the 1st Infantry Division (600th German Infantry Division) of the Russian Liberation Army (ROA) commanded by General Sergei Bunyachenko came to the help of the Czech insurgents to support the Prague uprising which started on May 5, 1945, against the German occupation. The ROA was created by former Soviet General Andrey Vlasov as an anti-communist Russian force in the combat against Bolshevism. Vlasov was initially reluctant, but ultimately did not resist General Bunyachenko's decision to fight against the Germans. The first division engaged in battle with Waffen-SS units that had been sent to level the city. The ROA units armed with heavy weaponry fended off the relentless SS assault, and together with the Czech insurgents succeeded in preserving most of Prague from destruction. Due to the predominance of Communists in the new Czech Rada, the first division had to leave the city the very next day and tried to surrender to the US Third Army of General Patton. The Allies, however, had little interest in aiding or sheltering the ROA, fearing such aid would severely harm relations with the Soviet Union. Soon after the failed attempt to surrender to the Americans, Bunyachenko, Vlasov, and the ROA forces in general were returned to the Soviet Union, after which they were mostly executed as traitors.

[Brenus]

"Communists and nazis hobnobbing after dividing Poland." So was the capitalist Poland in sharing Czechoslovakia...

"As for Parubiy, he has a nazi past. And? If he turned over a new leaf and keeps it turned - isn't it rather commendable than contemptible? It would be worse if it were the other way around": I don't know why you carrying on to do this, then claiming you NEVER say bla bla bla, honestly... Where is the turn? Where this guy changed in mind, when?

[Gilrandir]

"Communists and nazis hobnobbing after dividing Poland." So was the capitalist Poland in sharing Czechoslovakia...

One more proof that there was no "good side" in the war. At some peroid of time EVERY COUNTRY/SIDE INVOLVED did something which doesn't reflect a great credit upon it.

"As for Parubiy, he has a nazi past. And? If he turned over a new leaf and keeps it turned - isn't it rather commendable than contemptible? It would be worse if it were the other way around": I don't know why you carrying on to do this, then claiming you NEVER say bla bla bla, honestly... Where is the turn? Where this guy changed in mind, when?

Have you ever heard of assumption of innocence? Anyone is innocent until he is proven guilty. Do you have any proofs that since Parubiy became a civil servant he has said or done something that may be qualified as nazi propaganda/support or he was still a member of the party you meantioned? If you do, out with them. If you don't, my claim holds.

[Crandar]

1. Similarities between the Nazi and Soviet regimes are much deeper than the outward manifestations of them. Both resulted in millions of victims, only the reasons for killing people were different.

2. WWII is far from evil (aka as Gemany) vs good (Western allies and the USSR) fight. There were other sides to the conflict which supported neither or fought against both.

For the last time, Gilrandir. I accept that the Ukrainians are mad at the Reds and the Russians for stopping them more than once from exercising their favorite national sport, Jews-hunting. Yes, we all mourn about innocent, little Peltura and his gang of pure, Cossack-descended Ukrainian peasants, but what is done is done.
Sincerely speaking, vandalizing a statue of Lenin or a Red Army monument is a better way to honor his memory than comparing Soviet posters, coats and toothpastes with German ones, in front of what I'd describe as well-educated and critically thinking audience.

One more proof that there was no "good side" in the war. At some peroid of time EVERY COUNTRY/SIDE INVOLVED did something which doesn't reflect a great credit upon it.

The problem is that the bad stuff done by the one side is much, much, much more despicable and lethal than the bombing of Dresden and the rape of some German ladies in East Germany.
I get it, the collaborators and their national descendants are trying hard to distort what commense sense makes obvious to anyone with more than two brain cells, in a futile attempt to justify the lynching of Jews and the burning to the ground of Polish villages.

However, our education system hasn't collapsed entirely yet, so the majority isn't going to buy it. No need to waste our precious time discussing these matter, right?

[Lizardo]

I think Bolshevism and Communism was a foreign invasion it killed more ethnic russians and ukrainians than hitler did. And it was, agents on the bankroll of goldman sachs etc. overthrew the tsar, marx was a psychopathic foreigner so was lenin when the frankfurt school fled germany they were set up by wealthy individuals of what religion we cant name and set up in america subverting the populace today which is climaxed to the political situation in America today. I actually thank the National Socialists without them communism would be all over europe. WW2 was about Nationalism (Axis) vs Globalism (Allies) and globalism is winning today.

[Gilrandir]

For the last time, Gilrandir. I accept that the Ukrainians are mad at the Reds and the Russians for stopping them more than once from exercising their favorite national sport, Jews-hunting.

You are right. Ukrainians were so good at hunting Jews that now we have the Jewish prime minister who stepped down (or up?) from being the Head of the Parliament, and the President with Jewish roots. A very anti-semitic country Ukraine is.

Sincerely speaking, vandalizing a statue of Lenin or a Red Army monument is a better way to honor his memory than comparing Soviet posters, coats and toothpastes with German ones, in front of what I'd describe as well-educated and critically thinking audience.

Sure, Communists were angels embodied:

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/03/06/wo...ss-graves.html
https://communismblog.wordpress.com/...-kiev-ukraine/

Not at all like nazis.

The problem is that the bad stuff done by the one side is much, much, much more despicable and lethal than the bombing of Dresden and the rape of some German ladies in East Germany.

So killing people in Buchenwald is despicable, while bombing Dresden or Hiroshima is not? I see. The despicality is meted out depending on the doer of a murder. As well as raping.

I get it, the collaborators and their national descendants are trying hard to distort what commense sense makes obvious to anyone with more than two brain cells, in a futile attempt to justify the lynching of Jews and the burning to the ground of Polish villages.

For the last time, I didn't justify any crime. For the last time, the category of collaborators includes practically all Europeans nations and their leaders.

However, our education system hasn't collapsed entirely yet, so the majority isn't going to buy it.

The education system in the USSR (that taught me and is still considered to be one of the best in the world) claimed that Prague was liberated by Konev's army who, having recieved a pleading of the insurgent Czechs, made a battle march and in a couple of days reached the city and delivered it from the nazis. And now I discovered that it was the collaborators who evicted nazis from Prague. WTF? Conclusion: education (especially teaching history) is very often grounded on myths, slantings and exaggerations.

No need to waste our precious time discussing these matter, right?

Then don't waste it, live the myths and half-truths.

[Gilrandir]

This one explains how Russian media exercise hold of the minds of Russians (and Ukrainians who harken to them). People who watch suchlike footages every day can be easily persuaded in any imagined dangers besetting Russia. I realize that this is in French, yet I know that some people here understand it.


And Obama draws upon Hitler for quotes, says THE HEAD OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL COURT OF RUSSIA:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...rs/569896.html