Ukraine Thread

[Kadagar_AV]

One of the things that happened in Afghanistan was that various tribes would tell the Americans that people from another tribe were "terrorists". In one instance two American patrols with local guides called down air strikes on each other.

As I said months ago, I'm sure there was a legitimate sense of grievance in these areas, but a few hardliners, probably with Russian support from the start, turned this into a war and dragged everyone else in.

Did I mention Putin is a great strategist?

Regardless, a source would be nice... :)

[Strike For The South]

It's November 20th and Validamir Putin is still a fascist.

[Kadagar_AV]

It's November 20th and Validamir Putin is still a fascist.

You kind of come off as having learnt a cool phrase from someone you looked up to, and then you just go on applying it every chance you have.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

You kind of come off as having learnt a cool phrase from someone you looked up to, and then you just go on applying it every chance you have.

And what the hell do you think law school is about?

[Kadagar_AV]

And what the hell do you think law school is about?

Keeping people who argue like SFTS out?

[Strike For The South]

It's November 21st and Validamir Putin is still a fascist.

[Kadagar_AV]

It's November 21st and Validamir Putin is still a fascist.

Oh come on, I can program my pocket watch to give more intelligent replies.

[Strike For The South]

Oh come on, I can program my pocket watch to give more intelligent replies.

You assume the point is a well crafted statement

[Brenus]

"It's November 21st". You've got the date right...

[Sarmatian]

I'm just interested - what's the point of spelling his name wrong every time?

[Husar]

I'm just interested - what's the point of spelling his name wrong every time?

I assume Valid-Amir, that sounds like a cartoon character and amir is a high arab title of sorts.
1. It makes him cartoonish and mocks him
2. he's obviously a terrorist!
3. The entire sentence is about brainwashing anyway
4. Don't think, just hate Purten!

[Sarmatian]

I assume Valid-Amir, that sounds like a cartoon character and amir is a high arab title of sorts.
1. It makes him cartoonish and mocks him
2. he's obviously a terrorist!
3. The entire sentence is about brainwashing anyway
4. Don't think, just hate Purten!

Possibly, but overthinking Strike's statement is usually a wrong move. If it weren't for the exact same misspelling, I would have just assumed he is that disinterested or that he posted drunk.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Oh come on, I can program my pocket watch to give more intelligent replies.

You, a high-tech Euroweenie Austro-Swede are still using a pocket watch? Now I know where to send all those old fobs I have lying around.....

[Kadagar_AV]

You, a high-tech Euroweenie Austro-Swede are still using a pocket watch? Now I know where to send all those old fobs I have lying around.....

Self defense reasons...

I armed up rather massively since my little cultural clash some months ago. Steel chain pocket watch in one hand, 4000lumen flashlight with stroboscopic mode in the other, that can double as a baton, and a 45kg wolf to guard my rear and flanks...

As it's a pocket watch, it doesn't count as a concealed weapon (eventhough it sure is).

[a completely inoffensive name]

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/poli...nt-372707.html

[Gilrandir]

Self defense reasons...

I armed up rather massively since my little cultural clash some months ago. Steel chain pocket watch in one hand, 4000lumen flashlight with stroboscopic mode in the other, that can double as a baton, and a 45kg wolf to guard my rear and flanks...

As it's a pocket watch, it doesn't count as a concealed weapon (eventhough it sure is).

One thing you still lack and that is a light saber. Too proud and trustful in weapons you are. Use the force that is within you.

Meanwhile back to the topic.
Girkin gave an interview to the Russian newspaper Zavtra (what kind of newspapaer it is - http://www.rferl.org/content/russias.../25425155.html)

in which he claimed responsibility for the current war in Ukraine and admitted that if it hadn't been for his interference, the conflict would have ended like it did in Kharkiv or Odesa. This is for those who still believe that we are having a civil conflict in Ukraine and Russia has nothing to do with it.
http://zavtra.ru/content/view/kto-tyi-strelok/
Couldn't find a translation of it, sorry.

[Viking]

==> http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...ne/511584.html

Russian national Igor Strelkov, a former commander of pro-Moscow separatists in eastern Ukraine, has claimed "personal responsibility" for unleashing the conflict across the border, in which 4,300 people have been killed since April.

"I was the one who pulled the firing trigger of this war," Strelkov said in an interview published Thursday with Russia's Zavtra newspaper, which espouses imperialist views.

"If our unit hadn't crossed the border, in the end everything would have fizzled out, like in [the Ukrainian city of] Kharkiv, like in Odessa," Strelkov, also known as Girkin, was quoted as saying.

[Sarmatian]

As usual, the part you chose to quote doesn't match the contents of the article.

He talks about Ukrainian military being reluctant to get involved and that first units or "raiding parties" were ultranationalists like Right Sector. If he (his unit) hadn't been involved, they would have quelled resistance quickly like they did earlier. He takes full responsibility for resisting them, which triggered the war, otherwise, ultranationalists would have just rolled over eastern Ukraine.

He also mentions that practically all of the local population was pro-Russian, that they were extremely disappointed with lack of proper support from Russia and that they were shocked when Russia rebuffed them after the referenda held.

[Strike For The South]

It's November 23rd and Validamir Putin is still a fascist

[Gilrandir]

As usual, the part you chose to quote doesn't match the contents of the article.

He talks about Ukrainian military being reluctant to get involved and that first units or "raiding parties" were ultranationalists like Right Sector. If he (his unit) hadn't been involved, they would have quelled resistance quickly like they did earlier. He takes full responsibility for resisting them, which triggered the war, otherwise, ultranationalists would have just rolled over eastern Ukraine.

He also mentions that practically all of the local population was pro-Russian, that they were extremely disappointed with lack of proper support from Russia and that they were shocked when Russia rebuffed them after the referenda held.

So triggering the war was a better solution than an imagined "ultranationalists' roll over eastern Ukraine"? I wonder what were the earlier casualties after such a roll elsewhere? Even if we consider the ones in Odesa (which were caused by the pro-Russians attacking a football fans march not by Right Sector), are they comparable to what is going on in Donbas now?
As usual, you believe any pro-Russian or (in this case) Russian, especially those who try to find a just cause for penetrating another country and starting a war there.
As usual, you are missing the whole point: even Russians admit that there wouldn't be any war in Ukraine if Russia hadn't interfered (which is what I have been saying for half a year while others were babbling about suppressed minorities with local grievances who wage a just war against Kiev nazis).

[Gilrandir]

It's November 23rd and Validamir Putin is still a fascist

I think Voldemort would sound better.

[Sarmatian]

So triggering the war was a better solution than an imagined "ultranationalists' roll over eastern Ukraine"?

Don't look at me, I'm a pacifist and not invested in any way, shape or form in the outcome, but it is generally considered that a local population providing armed resistance to an armed outside force which wants to force something on them, it's not the local population that's at fault.

I wonder what were the earlier casualties after such a roll elsewhere? Even if we consider the ones in Odesa (which were caused by the pro-Russians attacking a football fans march not by Right Sector), are they comparable to what is going on in Donbas now?
As usual, you believe any pro-Russian or (in this case) Russian, especially those who try to find a just cause for penetrating another country and starting a war there.

That's very likely not what happened, but I'm past arguing with you on that.

As usual, you are missing the whole point: even Russians admit that there wouldn't be any war in Ukraine if Russia hadn't interfered (which is what I have been saying for half a year while others were babbling about suppressed minorities with local grievances who wage a just war against Kiev nazis).

You're missing the point. There wouldn't have been WW2 if no one resisted Hitler.

[Gilrandir]

Don't look at me, I'm a pacifist and not invested in any way, shape or form in the outcome, but it is generally considered that a local population providing armed resistance to an armed outside force which wants to force something on them, it's not the local population that's at fault.

It is a good excuse - to say that no one in the world should be hurt for any cause. But reality bites - sometimes one have to sacrifice a little to avoid greater harm.
But in the disscussed case it was not the local population that started the armed resistance, but Girkin (aka Strelkov) and his GRU posse. This fact is important in seeing the real meddler and instigator of the conflict.

You're missing the point. There wouldn't have been WW2 if no one resisted Hitler.

I was speaking not of resisting but of interfering into other country's affairs. But you again seem to liken Ukrainian regime to nazis. Well, now you won't have any reason to - Svoboda has 7 seats in the newly elected parliament, Right Sector - 1 and they will not be represented in the government. You will have to invent other imaginary fears which may justify what is going on in Donbas.

[Sarmatian]

It is a good excuse - to say that no one in the world should be hurt for any cause. But reality bites - sometimes one have to sacrifice a little to avoid greater harm.
But in the disscussed case it was not the local population that started the armed resistance, but Girkin (aka Strelkov) and his GRU posse. This fact is important in seeing the real meddler and instigator of the conflict.

That's great. Why doesn't Kiev sacrifice a little pride, recognize election results and give eastern Ukraine a greater autonomy?

I was speaking not of resisting but of interfering into other country's affairs. But you again seem to liken Ukrainian regime to nazis.

I have not. I was pointing out that you can't place the blame for conflict on a side that's resisting what they perceive to be an outside threat coming into their area.

[Beskar]

I assume Valid-Amir, that sounds like a cartoon character and amir is a high arab title of sorts.

I concentrated on the first-part, assuming he means Vladimir Putin is Valid in his offensive-actions in the Ukraine with a historical reference to the Muslim Hordes, he thought it worked better than Valid-Tsar.

[Husar]

I concentrated on the first-part, assuming he means Vladimir Putin is Valid in his offensive-actions in the Ukraine with a historical reference to the Muslim Hordes, he thought it worked better than Valid-Tsar.

Yeah, either way SFTS seems to be a Putin apologiser.

[Strike For The South]

It's November 24th and Validamir Putin is still a fascist

[Sarmatian]

Is there something about texans that makes bluntness charming?

No.

[rickinator9]

It's November 24th and Validamir Putin is still a fascist

Too much time on your hands?

[Strike For The South]

No.

A unified Yugoslavia still loses by 30 to the 92 dream team