Ukraine Thread

[Brenus]

"Ergo: Montenegro is worthless for NATO." No. Your words, not my quote. Your opinion is a country populated of 600,000 inhabitants (hbts) is worthless, not mine.
"How come?" That is easy to answer: To bite Russia.

"I wouldn't call them mutually exclusive if you allow for the existence of some degree of altruism, pride and perhaps also strategic location and public image." Altruism? We speak of the same NATO? Strategic location? Did you had a look on a map, recently? Public image, perhaps.
Montenegro feel threatened by whom?
And can I remind you that two NATO member-states of NATO and more or less at war? So much of the "safety umbrella" .

[Gilrandir]

"Ergo: Montenegro is worthless for NATO." No. Your words, not my quote. Your opinion is a country populated of 600,000 inhabitants (hbts) is worthless, not mine.

# 1238 - the whole post:

Montegro: 622,000 hbts.
US (NATO) base in Kosovo.
Really, what would be the interest of Montenegro for NATO? Naval Bases? Croatia would be more than happy to offer that... And Croatia has all the former military naval ports built by Tito.

The only thing worth to fight for in Montenegro is olive oil and Malboro made in Russia smuggling....

My words, you say?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

This thread doth wander...

[Brenus]

"My words, you say?" Yes. Where do you read unworthy (worthless)? You are a linguist, you know the importance of words. There are no reason for NATO to built bases in Montenegro, it is not the same of Montenegro is unworthy as you said, is it?
You put a disdain that I didn't. YOUR words, not mine. And you can try to distort the wording as much you want, YOU put an adjective in it.
So, except to upset Russia, what is the reason to have Montenegro in NATO? Naval bases? No. Land bases? No. Airbases? No. For each NATO as plenty of all all around the Balkans. This not a the disdain you showed to Montenegro, it is a reality check.
You should try it.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

How about this for an argument in favor of Montenegro.

Other than being another country with a language desperately short of vowels to break up those strings of consonants, what is not to like?

[Brenus]

Oh, I am in favour of Montenegro and Serbia.
Contrary to Gilrandir probably, I went often in this country kad bilo je Jugoslavija.
And I like their music,
Zabrejano Pusanje (Bosnia) https://youtu.be/zU73yqxM7iU
https://youtu.be/0IofpvkGJPM
Merlin (Bosnia), https://youtu.be/2Xda4BUoZ3I
Riblja Corba, https://youtu.be/VE80eImDdAQ
Balasevic and others.
And their women are beautiful. https://youtu.be/vwMyF7ic_Ys
https://youtu.be/sOId3rZrBMk
Goran Bregović, Emir Kusturica:
https://youtu.be/EZf00ad3G6o
and of course:
https://youtu.be/UqOL7LOR6ko
A black sense of humour: When they shot down the Invisible bomber, they printed a post card saying: Sorry, we didn't see it.
And Belgrade by Night with the flames of the bombing during the night. Fantastic people...

[Kralizec]

"How come?" That is easy to answer: To bite Russia.

...or, it could be a case of Montenegro wanting to pursue closer relations with USA and Europe. And the rest of NATO welcoming that.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.


(edit: Canada too :P)

[Gilrandir]

"My words, you say?" Yes. Where do you read unworthy (worthless)? You are a linguist, you know the importance of words. There are no reason for NATO to built bases in Montenegro, it is not the same of Montenegro is unworthy as you said, is it?
You put a disdain that I didn't. YOUR words, not mine. And you can try to distort the wording as much you want, YOU put an adjective in it.
So, except to upset Russia, what is the reason to have Montenegro in NATO? Naval bases? No. Land bases? No. Airbases? No. For each NATO as plenty of all all around the Balkans. This not a the disdain you showed to Montenegro, it is a reality check.
You should try it.

I didn't show any disdain. This is YOUR interpretation (or rather perversion) of my words. I used the word in the meaning:

worthless adjective (NOT IMPORTANT)

not important or not useful:
She was criticized so much by her employers that she began to feel worthless.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...lish/worthless

For me, presenting no interest as a future ally = worthless as a future ally.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

...For me, presenting no interest as a future ally = worthless as a future ally.

Superficially, NATO is simply a defense alliance. On that prima facie basis, your basic point of assessment -- value to defensive alliance -- would clearly suggest Montenegran irrelevance.

NATO is, functionally, much more than that -- for good or for ill. I think Kralizec as the right of it in his post immediately above.

[Brenus]

"For me" Key words. Your words. And because you are now obliged to accept these are you words, you try to twist around
So, if worthless if not offensive (and it is) why did you start all this polemic?

[Gilrandir]

"For me" Key words. Your words. And because you are now obliged to accept these are you words, you try to twist around

I said that "for me, presenting no interest as a future ally = worthless as a future ally." The second part of the equation is mine, but the first is yours. I used the word "worthless" in the meaning "not important or not useful" which allowed me to claim the two statements are synonymous. Evidently, you imparted this word with a different meaning. So it is a simple misunderstanding. No intentional twisting or other sins you accuse me of.

So, if worthless if not offensive (and it is) why did you start all this polemic?

It is not offensive in the meaning I used it. Just like in: The information on how a language and a dialect are different is worthless. No disdain or humiliation. Just stating the fact that someone isn't interested in the information. That simple.

As for starting a polemic: I found what I considered to be a contradiction in your claims. When you explained that NATO did see a purpose in accepting Montenegro (to piss off Russia) I figured out that, in fact, your statement was ironical or didn't convey the whole of your mind on the issue. Again that simple. Much too often you impart me with attitudes and opinions that would fit perfectly into the image of me you have in your mind, but which, alas, doesn't coincide with the real me.


In other news:
https://themoscowtimes.com/news/hagu...-ukraine-56154, where

Also listed in the report are several key criminal complaints in connection with the annexation of Crimea, including the oppression of Crimean Tatars, arrests and unfair trials, killings and kidnappings, and forced military service.

And I remember you were very sceptical that Tatars are in for persecutions after the annexation. So I applied reality check, as you taught.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Brenus/Gilrandir:

Have you considered marriage? The two of you are starting to sound like an old married couple, locked into the same endless argument for the rest of their lives.