Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
It was given to Ukraine by the right of conquest.
As a response to my statement that, under realpolitik Crimea could be construed as belonging to Russia by right of conquest, I do not see the link.

Russia conquered the Crimea in 1873. It was territory "owned" by the Tsars who also "owned" the Ukraine.

How does this suggest that Ukraine conquered Crimea? Crimea being a part of Ukraine was bureaucratic, with Ukraine retaining control more or less by inertia in 1991.

The 1873 conquest of Crimea by the Tsars and subsequent "Russification" efforts may well have established a populace that deemed itself more "Russian" then "Ukrainian," a factor used by the Russians along with covert troop deployment to take control of Crimea and annex it since the Ukrainian internal problems developed in 2014. So it may be argued that the Tsarist conquest helped establish the position allowing its reacquisition by Russia more recently, but I cannot see how the Tsarist conquest of Crimea means that Crimea was Ukrainian by right of conquest.

You may argue that Russia's conquest of Crimea allowed the right to dispose of the territory as they deemed fit, including it's transfer to Ukrainian oversight under Kruschev's politburo. But while that may legitimize Ukraine's claim to the Crimea, a claim reinforced by their inclusion of that territory as theirs while assuming independence (which claim was accepted by Russia), the legitimacy does not stem from any Ukrainian conquest.

THAT was what underscores my earlier comment to Gil.' It is the accepted customs of international law -- an attempt to impose a moral/ethical framework to replace 'might makes right' -- that supports Ukraine's sovereignty over Crimea. Might, in the form of 'by right of conquest,' would underscore and support Russia's annexation. Therefore, I suggested that his implicit argument suggesting that no country could claim the moral high ground was rhetorically counterproductive to his larger goal of a free and independent Ukraine maintaining sovereignty over its 1992 borders.