Ukraine Thread

[Brenus]

The same can be said of attacking Iraq in Kuwait in 1991. Yet this war is considered to be a righteous one.

I think the 1991 war was a UN war. Saddam had invaded a sovereign country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...Resolution_687

[Gilrandir]

I think the 1991 war was a UN war. Saddam had invaded a sovereign country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...Resolution_687

It became a UN war because Iraq couldn't veto those resolutions you refer to. Plus the finacial considerations which I have mentioned. In other cases, when the principle world players are involved invasions of sovereign countries pass unnoticed. Or, for a change, UN can throw philippics but no one cares.

[Brenus]

It became a UN war because Iraq couldn't veto those resolutions you refer to. Plus the finacial considerations which I have mentioned. In other cases, when the principle world players are involved invasions of sovereign countries pass unnoticed. Or, for a change, UN can throw philippics but no one cares.

UN is not perfect but it is what we have.
Or we let NATO,China and Russia decide what is moral or not, what is legal or not. I give you that with the NATO involvement in Yugoslavia, it was not a knife but a machete in the contract.
At least, the French Parliament did vote to send troops in Iraq (Kuwait). To be fair, I agreed with the vote.
I am not sure it was the right move anymore... Do we have to help dictatorships invaded by other dictatorships?

[Gilrandir]

UN is not perfect but it is what we have.
Or we let NATO,China and Russia decide what is moral or not, what is legal or not.

They still do it, whether with the help of the UN or without it. The UN needs a reform to remove the dictatorship of the permanent members, otherwise it is useless when they are involved in a conflict - and they almost always are.

At least, the French Parliament did vote to send troops in Iraq (Kuwait). To be fair, I agreed with the vote.

While ostensibly it was meant to restore justice, the financial prospects for the parties involved were one of the reasons it happened (in my view).

[Brenus]

They still do it, whether with the help of the UN or without it. The UN needs a reform to remove the dictatorship of the permanent members, otherwise it is useless when they are involved in a conflict - and they almost always are.
While ostensibly it was meant to restore justice, the financial prospects for the parties involved were one of the reasons it happened (in my view).

I can't disagree... I am dishonored...

[Sarmatian]

They still do it, whether with the help of the UN or without it. The UN needs a reform to remove the dictatorship of the permanent members

Why do you assume democracies are better?

Iraq invasion was done by democracies. It was based on false information, against a country that didn't threaten them or their citizens. It resulted in several hundred thousand deaths, billions of dollars in damage and no one answered for that.

At best, someone blushed when it was brought up.

[Gilrandir]

Why do you assume democracies are better?

Iraq invasion was done by democracies. It was based on false information, against a country that didn't threaten them or their citizens. It resulted in several hundred thousand deaths, billions of dollars in damage and no one answered for that.

At best, someone blushed when it was brought up.

I didn't say democracies are better. What I claimed was that international involvement to do justice isn't brought about by moral considerations (only). The latter are disregarded when the democracies fear being in the red after/because of "doing justice".

[Sarmatian]

I didn't say democracies are better. What I claimed was that international involvement to do justice isn't brought about by moral considerations (only). The latter are disregarded when the democracies fear being in the red after/because of "doing justice".

Yeah, I misunderstood your post.