Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
Once again: Lugandon denied any other option but complete independence. But even if it hadn't there is no way to make any kind of agreement with peple who don't control all of the territory they hold since they don't control all the hitmen there. For example, Minsk agreements were not recognized by Don cossacks in Lugansk region, Bezler's group in Horlivka, Chechens here and there and Motorola's group around Donetsk airport. There is no unified Eastern Ukraine, nor Novorossia, nor DPR, nor LPR. The area is divided between 12-17 gangs some of which obey no one (not even Putin).
Precisely the reason why Kiev should have recognized (even provisionally) the election results.


Once again: a side that's resisting now (and started resisting back in spring) is Russia. That is the side I place the blame on for the stalemate we are having now.
Well, I'm willing to agree that we disagree on that.

How do you know the bold? The source, please.
Common sense. If I'm a moderate who wants things to go back to how they were, I'm royally screwed because my government cut me off completely.

How do you know the bold? The source, please.
Lack of major combat operations, a lot of small scale fighting and whenever it happens, it usually involves National Guard or paramilitary groups.

You seem to be rooted in what you claimed half a year ago and base your judgements on your own assumptions and wishful thinkings.
Reluctance of the Ukrainian army spotted in spring was explained by the fact that its propulsion was resisted by unarmed people (mainly women). The reluctance vanished since the nature of the resistance changed. And the minister of defense is the ex-head of the National Guard who you seem to include into "ultranationalist paramilitary groups". So, following your logics, that cutthroat can have no scruples whatever giving ordres to kill civilian Russian-speakers in heaps. Wait, I heard something like that before... Ah, yes. Russian TV showed a speaker who claimed that at one Ukrainian checkpoint near Kramatorsk Ukrainians don't let anyone pass through without taking money from them, one grandfather didn't have it so they took by force ten eggs he had with him. Another time they raped a 50+ woman who had an epileptic fit during the rape, but it didn't stop the perpetrators so they kept on doing their business while the whole bus (out of which they had pulled her) were watching them. Another "witness" said that Ukrainian soldiers fight in the East because they had been promised a piece of land and two slaves to till it.
Any more tales of horror you can add?
Que? What are you even talking about.

Like what Croatia did to Kraina?
Croatia performed ethnic cleansing in Krajina, so obviously not that. If Croatia defeated military force and protected civilian population and integrated them back as citizens with full rights, I'd have very little problem with entire thing.