Ukraine Thread

[Brenus]

"How can payments be ensured in Lugandon?" So, you agree that the money was never pay in reality, so it is a political stance endorsing the fact that the Ukrainian in Rebels lands are no more Ukrainian...?
You see, but, no you don't. you can't claim that Ukraine is one territory, and creating a apartheid. But, not the first time you don't see the obvious...

[Viking]

It will be interesting to see how far the Russian economy will go on its path to go belly up. It could have quite serious implications that go far beyond this conflict alone.

[Gilrandir]

I always wondered about this... How eastern European languages have such weird nicknames...

I was together with a girl, Olcia... I could also call her Alex... WTF?? They are in no way related.

Perhaps it was Olga? Alex is short for Alexandra, typically shortened to Sasha or (guess what?) Shura.
Speaking of non related shortenings, I can give you some: Dick and Richard, Bob/Dob and Robert, Mary and Mamie/Molly, Mathilda /Martha and Patty,and my favorite Margaret and Peggy....

Gospodin, I speak 'murrican. Need to cut me some slack here.

"Gospodin" is Russian, the Ukrainian for it is "pan". Yes, you can call me that.

"How can payments be ensured in Lugandon?" So, you agree that the money was never pay in reality, so it is a political stance endorsing the fact that the Ukrainian in Rebels lands are no more Ukrainian...?
You see, but, no you don't. you can't claim that Ukraine is one territory, and creating a apartheid. But, not the first time you don't see the obvious...

I never denied the fact that Ukraine can't control some of its territory, that is why the decision to suspend financing it was sensible. But the money is accumulated on special accounts and when/if Ukraine resumes control over the said areas the money will be paid.
But admitting the obvious (the loss of control) doesn't presuppose recognition of any kind of separate statehood of DPR, LPR, Novorossia or other quasi-formations.
Like Ukraine doesn't recognize that Crimea is no more a part of Ukraine yet it doesn't finance the peninsula.

[Gilrandir]

South Stream is history:
http://www.theguardian.com/business/...m-gas-pipeline

[a completely inoffensive name]

How does that poem go? Oil, oil every where, nor any drop to sell...

[Gilrandir]

http://www.euronews.com/2014/12/02/u...ent-ministers/

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

http://www.euronews.com/2014/12/02/u...ent-ministers/

A Ukrainian-American, Lithuanian and a Georgian... it says something about how much the climate in Ukraine has changed. Whatever comes out of this I think that pro-Russian sentiment in Ukraine is going to be unpopular for decades.

I don't suppose anyone can shed any light on why the Kremlin didn't see this coming?

[Gilrandir]

A Ukrainian-American, Lithuanian and a Georgian... it says something about how much the climate in Ukraine has changed. Whatever comes out of this I think that pro-Russian sentiment in Ukraine is going to be unpopular for decades.

I don't suppose anyone can shed any light on why the Kremlin didn't see this coming?

Pro-Kremlin media are sure to say something like:"We told you that the USA is behind all Ukrainian government does, now America (through its ex-citizen, the Georgian and - not unlikely - the Lithuanian) will rule Ukraine directly". RT has already called the ministries they will run "the key ones",though I don't see how Health care may be counted as one and, say, Defense, Exterior and Inerior are not.
The problem with the appointments might be that the new Ukrainians will find it hard to battle against the whole corrupt system and, realizing that, they will abandon their posts. To avoid this they will have to sack a lot of employees of the corresponding ministries and management of whole branches of economy which may again cause overt and covert opposition.

[Husar]

I don't suppose anyone can shed any light on why the Kremlin didn't see this coming?

It's fun to watch how you pro-westerners are desperate for approval from a distance.
Gilrandir already dreams up imaginary responses for him to refute, it's cute, but don't let it turn into complete madness.

But I will say that, while it's quite sad how the country does not seem to have appropriate talents of it's own, I applaud the flexibility.
Should have chosen a black person who was born in Russia for full flexibility, but this is a good first step.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

It's fun to watch how you pro-westerners are desperate for approval from a distance.
Gilrandir already dreams up imaginary responses for him to refute, it's cute, but don't let it turn into complete madness.

It's what they're saying already, and it's not cute.

But I will say that, while it's quite sad how the country does not seem to have appropriate talents of it's own, I applaud the flexibility.
Should have chosen a black person who was born in Russia for full flexibility, but this is a good first step.

Well, what do you want?

Realists or Ukraine stuck in a Post-Communist system?

Surely, the Post-Communist country which has made the greatest strides in East Germany. Don't tell me that has nothing to do with the influence of a WEst German administration.

[Husar]

It's what they're saying already, and it's not cute.

Sometimes even a blind chicken finds some corn, as we say here.

Well, what do you want?

Realists or Ukraine stuck in a Post-Communist system?

Surely, the Post-Communist country which has made the greatest strides in East Germany. Don't tell me that has nothing to do with the influence of a WEst German administration.

Why do I have to want something? I said I applaud this effort and that's it. I do not want anything from them at this point.

The administration in East Germany was East German and now it is just German, although what is now German is closer to what West Germany was like since we basically bought East Germany. So are you saying that Ukraine should get West German ministers or just that native Ukrainians are unable to implement western-style administration and that they have to hire foreigners to get that?

[Gilrandir]

But I will say that, while it's quite sad how the country does not seem to have appropriate talents of it's own, I applaud the flexibility.

It is not about having/not having appropriate talents. When a Ukrainian reaches a top position he/she does it thanks to so many people, groups, parties that he/she is supposed to be grateful enough to pay them back. Unlike Ukrainians, foreigners who take some top positions are not imbedded into the Ukrainain society: they don't have any connections and relations, they don't have any business interests in Ukraine, they are not disturbed about their future political prospects thus they are not afraid of popularity drops, they don't owe anyone anything and they can have a balanced view of the situation.

[Husar]

It is not about having/not having appropriate talents. When a Ukrainian reaches a top position he/she does it thanks to so many people, groups, parties that he/she is supposed to be grateful enough to pay them back. Unlike Ukrainians, foreigners who take some top positions are not imbedded into the Ukrainain society: they don't have any connections and relations, they don't have any business interests in Ukraine, they are not disturbed about their future political prospects thus they are not afraid of popularity drops, they don't owe anyone anything and they can have a balanced view of the situation.

Or they will not serve the people well because they have no reason to. You can really see this both ways...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Sometimes even a blind chicken finds some corn, as we say here.

USA version features a blind squirrel and an acorn.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Sometimes even a blind chicken finds some corn, as we say here.

So Gilrandir is a blind chicken?

Nice.

Well, if he is he's someone surrounded by corn in your analogy.

Why do I have to want something? I said I applaud this effort and that's it. I do not want anything from them at this point.

The administration in East Germany was East German and now it is just German, although what is now German is closer to what West Germany was like since we basically bought East Germany. So are you saying that Ukraine should get West German ministers or just that native Ukrainians are unable to implement western-style administration and that they have to hire foreigners to get that?

We all want something from this conflict, even if it's for it not to spread. With regards to East/West Germany what actually happened is that West Germany peacefully annexed East Germany. Today's federal German Government is the West German one.

This bears on Ukraine because all post-Communist countries are struggling to root out corruption, the restrictive anti-wealth Communist framework embedded it. Without legitimate ways to get rich people found illegitimate ones. Importing technocrats from other countries is as much about the whole government as it is about those ministries. It says two things.

1. If Russia is going to semi-covertly insert it's people into positions of power in the rebel regions we are going to overtly bring people Russia will object to into our government.

2. It says that the Ukrainian Executive can replace someone who is corrupt with someone else.

[Husar]

So Gilrandir is a blind chicken?

Nice.

[...]

2. It says that the Ukrainian Executive can replace someone who is corrupt with someone else.

First you make my expression look worse than it was and then you claim that they cannot find anyone in Ukraine who isn't corrupt.
Nice try...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

First you make my expression look worse than it was and then you claim that they cannot find anyone in Ukraine who isn't corrupt.
Nice try...

If all Ukrainian Politicians were hopelessly corrupt presumably they would have imported a bunch of Germans, and elected a German president - like Romania did.

[Gilrandir]

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/...204-story.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD-16bVsto0
Now will we hear from anyone on the forum or at large (especially Voldemort Put In) that Russia must negotiate with the peaceful locals and not infringe upon the rights of Chechen-speaking population? Will anyone call the Russian government "junta" after they enforced the law in Grozny?

[Gilrandir]

After the reported shoot out Ukrainian intelligence at least in one place in the ATO zone (in Luhansk region) informed about the withdrawal of several Chechen companies. It is explained by the probable order of Kadyrov to get back to Chechnya and help him deal with rebels.

[Kralizec]

It's December 6th and the Pope is catholic.

[a completely inoffensive name]

It's December 6th and the Pope is catholic.

Also Putin is a fascist.

[Viking]

I think Poroshenko should gift this place a proper station:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=685178338265761

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Or just a proper siding.

[Brenus]

And the Siberian Tiger released by Putin is killing goats in China. What Evil Putin is!

[Gilrandir]

http://www.blueforcetracker.com/arti...ack-in-Donetsk
And apart from that, ATO press officer spoke of other steps which have been and are being taken by pro-Ukrainian partisans in the area.

[Husar]

US may be heading towards provoking WW3 after having helped in overthrowing the former government of Ukraine, says foreign policy expert Dr. Ron Paul:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/reckles...russia/5418287

The resolution (paragraph 11) accuses the people in east Ukraine of holding “fraudulent and illegal elections” in November. Why is it that every time elections do not produce the results desired by the US government they are called “illegal” and “fraudulent”? Aren’t the people of eastern Ukraine allowed self-determination? Isn’t that a basic human right?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

US may be heading towards provoking WW3 after having helped in overthrowing the former government of Ukraine, says foreign policy expert Dr. Ron Paul:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/reckles...russia/5418287

Potatoes for votes.

As I said - if the rebels laid downs arms and held an actual referendum after proper discussions of the context of the question, that would be different.

Even in Crimea people didn't ACTUALLY vote to join Russia, they voted to revert to a constitution that allowed their regional parliament to join Russia. This was done under a law which was itself illegal as many of the MP's recorded as voting weren't there.

[Viking]

US may be heading towards provoking WW3 after having helped in overthrowing the former government of Ukraine, says foreign policy expert Dr. Ron Paul:

I am also a foreign policy expert.

[Gilrandir]

On how nazi Azov are (sorry it's in Russian, no English translation I know of):
http://fakty.ua/192310-komandir-evre...cov-v-zone-ato
This one is in English, however:
http://www.mnogovbloge.com/?p=8365&lang=en

[Gilrandir]

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/513061.html