Ukraine Thread

[Gilrandir]

Don't be to apologetic for the UPA/OUN. Communism also had a noble cause, yet we denounce it last but not least because of its methods. Well, at least outside of Russia.

As I have said many times (and which Brenus refuses to see), I have no great sympathy for UPA and Bandera. I realize the limited and biased character of their worldview and dubious and/or criminal nature of some of their deeds. But they were products of their time. And if we speak of say, Volyn massacre, we can't say that ALL UPA MEMBERS participated in it. And Bandera spent most of his active political life in Poish prison and Sachsenhausen. Most of those who criticize UPA and Bandera don't know that. I would like people to know all bad and good sides of things they are so opinionated about before they can make sober conclusions. So I don't see the reason to hate the now old men who didn't take part in any atrocities, but fought all those who they considered invaders - both Germans and Soviets.

Stick with Taras Shevchenko, Ivano Franko or Yaroslav the Wise if you want to build monuments.

Do you know that Shevchenko wrote many poems (including Haidamakas)in which he glorifued those who massacred jews and the Polish?

http://www.ukrainianwinnipeg.ca/shev...ews-haidmakas/

Some modern historians believe that Yaroslav the Wise assasinated his brothers Boris and Gleb and later attributed their murder to another brother Svyatopolk (later nicknamed for it the Accursed).

http://ria.ru/history_tochki/20100801/260888588.html

Bottomline: ANY HISTORIC FIGURE has very shady sided to him. So what is to be done - no glorification of anyone?
My answer - we should know about both the glorious and the ignoble and then praise him for the former and condemn for the latter.

Anyway, far right forces played a disproportionally large role in Maidan revolution.

Of course, you have numerical data on general participation of people in Maidan events and on the number of far rightists among them so that we could confirm that your judgement is sound.

They were brought en masse from Lvov to Kiev to be used as shock troops.

Again, if you have the data on the number of people brought from Lviv to Kyiv and on the percentage of the far rightists among them and on their quantitative representation within the shock troops, we would consider them. Until then these are arbitrary claims.