Ukraine Thread

[Gilrandir]

Fascism=/=Antisemitism.
I didn't know that Marx was the leader of the Khmer Rouge, the Bolsheviks and the CCCP. Naughty, naughty Karl!

All of them claimed to have been Marxists. So Marx had as much to do with actual slaughters as Bandera with the Volyn massacre.

Bandera and his merry band of sociopaths slaughtered tens of thousands of Poles, which is why I called them genocidal maniacs and not "German collaborators" (although they were), as you strawmanly tried to imply.

As I have remarked Bandera was in the concentration camp, so he slaughtered no one. And I would like to have proofs (preferebly by a psychologist) that "his merry band" were sociopaths.

Peltura may have verbally opposed the pogroms, but his henchmen continued to casually massacre the Jews. I think Peltura, as an adult and Supreme Commander/President of the Ukrainian Republic should be held responsible for the crimes of his subordinates.
I hope that the Ukrainian society will eventually find the necessary maturity to examine its history objectively, without feeling the need to glorify bloodthirsty monsters.

As I have said, almost each historical personality has good and bad deeds in his record. We should glorify the former and denounce the latter.

What do you personally think of Bandera and the Volhynian genocide? Do you believe that a couple of dead Ukrainians justify the ethnic cleansing of thousands of Poles?

I think we should treat the cases of Bandera and the massacre separately. I have no great admiration of the man taking into account his "dark side". But one can't forget his ultimate purpose - the creation of the Ukrainian independent state. So for me he remains a controversial figure. But so are many others including those of Israel, who committed war crimes against Arabs back in the 1960s or were involved in terrorism earlier, but are glorifeid there as founders and defenders of the country.

As for the massacre, I think it horrible. But it doesn't make the massacres of Ukrainians by Poles less horrible and you seem to gauge the iniquity of the crime depending on the number of victims. A couple of dead Ukrainians don't seem to upset you. Although it is not true, there were more than a couple, the victims number thousands.

A couple of years ago Poroshenko took part in commemorating the Polish victims and asked for forgiveness on behalf of Ukraine. I don't remember the reciprocate action on the Polish side.