Ukraine Thread

**CrossLOPER** · 02-25-2015, 06:20

Originally Posted by Gilrandir

Russian propaganda in action:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/ma...ruth.html?_r=1

I never understood why people bash Russian TV so much. I don't know of a single place where TV does not suck, most especially in the US. As for propaganda, that article is propaganda itself.

You knew this.

**Gilrandir** · 02-25-2015, 07:50

Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

I never understood why people bash Russian TV so much. I don't know of a single place where TV does not suck, most especially in the US. As for propaganda, that article is propaganda itself.

You knew this.

The reason I posted this is because people here tend to underestimate the power of Russian propaganda. My aunt who lives in Krasnodar calls my father now and again and he is astounded and even apalled after such communications. He can't believe that she trusts what she hears and sees on TV more than the words of her brother.

**Gilrandir** · 02-25-2015, 09:05

Found an interesting prediction and thought it might be curious for others to know. One of Ukrainian experts claims that the oncoming spring will be the time when ISIS will step up its offensive and try to cooperate/coordinate it with Taliban. This will give a push to fundamentalist activities in Central Asia (Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan) as far as attempts to topple secular regimes in those states. This consequently will demand more attention from Russia which is likely to strengthen its military presence in those regions. That is why the haste of Putin to solve the situation in Ukraine and his precipitate offensive in winter. Thus ISIS offensive may ultimately benefit Ukraine.

**GenosseGeneral** · 02-26-2015, 10:38

Originally Posted by Gilrandir

Found an interesting prediction and thought it might be curious for others to know. One of Ukrainian experts claims that the oncoming spring will be the time when ISIS will step up its offensive and try to cooperate/coordinate it with Taliban. This will give a push to fundamentalist activities in Central Asia (Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan) as far as attempts to topple secular regimes in those states. This consequently will demand more attention from Russia which is likely to strengthen its military presence in those regions. That is why the haste of Putin to solve the situation in Ukraine and his precipitate offensive in winter. Thus ISIS offensive may ultimately benefit Ukraine.

I am not an expert here, but if ISIS will expand, this will more likely happen (or is already happening) in Libya and Egypt, particularly the Sinai peninsula. Currently, it is more the other way round: Jihadis from Central Asia and the Caucasus have joined the IS, especially notable are Chechens. At least those of them, who are not fighting on either side of the Ukrainian civil war.

Regarding freedom of press in Ukraine: Unfortunately, freedom of press and human rights activists inside and outside of Ukraine have every reason to protest against it. In the Ukrainian context, it will be very likely not only used to suppress Russian propaganda (already a very, you know, imprecise term), but also to target journalists exposing misconduct and corruption, especially in the armed forces.

**Gilrandir** · 02-26-2015, 10:56

Originally Posted by GenosseGeneral

I am not an expert here, but if ISIS will expand, this will more likely happen (or is already happening) in Libya and Egypt, particularly the Sinai peninsula. Currently, it is more the other way round: Jihadis from Central Asia and the Caucasus have joined the IS, especially notable are Chechens. At least those of them, who are not fighting on either side of the Ukrainian civil war.

When I spoke of Cenral Asian fundamentalism I meant more its Taliban orientation/relation/support than ISIS. And Taliban is much closer than ISIS.

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 02-25-2015, 19:34

Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

I never understood why people bash Russian TV so much. I don't know of a single place where TV does not suck, most especially in the US. As for propaganda, that article is propaganda itself.

You knew this.

True, but Russian TV "news" is laughable - especially given that any dissenting stations are simply closed.

America is apparently sending a training Battalion to Ukraine, which is a significant symbolic commitment whilst the UK is sending 75 troops in four training teams.

The news is from the BBC, but I can't find the article now.

**CrossLOPER** · 02-26-2015, 06:38

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

True, but Russian TV "news" is laughable - especially given that any dissenting stations are simply closed.

Are you unfamiliar with US news stations? They are 24-hour clownshoes cabaret.

Again, I fully concede that the state of Russian media is an unsustainable joke, but to suggest that this is somehow unique is unrepresentative of the truth.

**Brenus** · 02-26-2015, 08:09

Ukrainian Gvt and freedom of media:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27546283

Probably Russian propaganda.

**Gilrandir** · 02-26-2015, 08:48

Originally Posted by Brenus

Ukrainian Gvt and freedom of media:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27546283

Probably Russian propaganda.

Hybrid war neccessitates unconventional countermeasures. Informational component of the said war is even more important than the actual warfare which was proved by the Crimean episode. Have you paid attention that only representatives of particular media were under attack? Why RT and Lifenews, and not BBC, Al-Jazeera or NYT? Don't you think it is connected with the nature of messages they carry and their "unbiased policies"? Russia was officially proclaimed the aggressor by the parliament, so these are steps consistent with this - to disable the enemy's informational soldiers. Or can you imagine German newspaper correspondents reporting, say, from Moscow in December 1941?
If you think it was/is otherwise in Western democracies:
http://russia-insider.com/en/militar...015/02/23/3771
Will you entitle it like "British Gvt and freedom of media"?

**Greyblades** · 02-26-2015, 13:59

Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

Are you unfamiliar with US news stations? They are 24-hour clownshoes cabaret.

Again, I fully concede that the state of Russian media is an unsustainable joke, but to suggest that this is somehow unique is unrepresentative of the truth.

While the incompetence of American news reporting is both staggering and largely intentional, they are not remotely equivelant to that of the Russian Federation.

That the fox news crew havent been put against a wall and shot during the tenure of a democratic president is testament to that if nothing else

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 02-26-2015, 16:17

Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

Are you unfamiliar with US news stations? They are 24-hour clownshoes cabaret.

Again, I fully concede that the state of Russian media is an unsustainable joke, but to suggest that this is somehow unique is unrepresentative of the truth.

I've heard of them - but I'm in the UK, so it doesn't matter to me much.

**Hax** · 02-26-2015, 19:06

There is not a really strong presence of fundamentalist/jihadis in Central Asia, so I would be surprised if ISIS managed to get a foothold there. Especially considering how hard the Central Asian states tend to crack down on such movements. The governments there pretty much call everyone that disagrees with them "islamists", so I'm not sure to what degree we should take that very seriously.

But if Putin believes that, sure -- why not?

**CrossLOPER** · 02-27-2015, 04:50

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

I've heard of them - but I'm in the UK, so it doesn't matter to me much.

So why did you bring this up?

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 02-27-2015, 21:51

Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

So why did you bring this up?

Because US news is not the only news Russia has to compete with?

German, French, English, Australian...

US news sucks but Russian news is a bad joke, because it pretends to be serious.