Ukraine Thread

[Gilrandir]

13.03.2015: USA want to move 800 tanks to Europe http://www.sat1bayern.de/news/201503...r-stationiert/
Second link: http://www.br.de/nachrichten/oberpfa...woehr-100.html

Not just to abstract Europe, but to Bayern. Check the distance from it to Russia. It is stupid to thus react to tanks being deployed thousands of miles from Russia. They might as well justify the alert by ISIS activity.

10.03.2015: USA send 3000 soldiers to the baltic countries http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/usa...tikum-101.html
The first sentence says the tanks and other equipment are being unloaded in the port.

All the exercises that happened in Europe were well-known and publicly announced, the page Kage linked has several from 2014 shown on the map.

Those (and the Bayerische one) were not exercises but deployments. I don't know if such things are heralded a year ahead. Since the articles claim that these were the steps connected with the Ukraine crisis, I don't think it could have been announced in 2014.

[Husar]

Not just to abstract Europe, but to Bayern. Check the distance from it to Russia. It is stupid to thus react to tanks being deployed thousands of miles from Russia. They might as well justify the alert by ISIS activity.

It says to Europe and "some of them should be stationed in Grafenwöhr". It does not say they all go to Bavaria.

Those (and the Bayerische one) were not exercises but deployments. I don't know if such things are heralded a year ahead. Since the articles claim that these were the steps connected with the Ukraine crisis, I don't think it could have been announced in 2014.

There's an empty line between the part about deployments and the part about exercises, don't mix them up. The exercises already happened in 2014, they weren't just announced. They were partially held in connection with the Ukraine crisis, but you were the one saying that military exercises do not contribute to de-escalation, no?

[Gilrandir]

The exercises already happened in 2014, they weren't just announced. They were partially held in connection with the Ukraine crisis, but you were the one saying that military exercises do not contribute to de-escalation, no?

I don't know what you mean by "partially in connection". The exercises had been planned and announced way back, and when the crisis hit they were proclaimed to be connected with it? Then they have nothing to do with escalation or de-escalation. They do if they were re-scheduled or the participants of them were increased in number, they were shifted to another locale (closer to the fighting zone) or they hadn't been planned before the conflict started or (most importantly) if the participants of them are universally credited to be one of the beligirents likely to take part in fighting any time soon after or during the exercises and the latter are a smoke screen to send soldiers to actual fighting. The last mentioned seems to be the case with Russia's troops. But Russia has had numerous exercises in the vicinity of Ukraine since 2014, and what is being discussed now is the ALERT STATE not the exercises. Alert states are not pre-planned.

[Gilrandir]

http://www.radiosvoboda.org/media/video/26909782.html
I am confused - are there Russian nazis who thus salute to the Crimea liberation from nazis?

[Husar]

I don't know what you mean by "partially in connection". The exercises had been planned and announced way back, and when the crisis hit they were proclaimed to be connected with it? Then they have nothing to do with escalation or de-escalation. They do if they were re-scheduled or the participants of them were increased in number, they were shifted to another locale (closer to the fighting zone) or they hadn't been planned before the conflict started or (most importantly) if the participants of them are universally credited to be one of the beligirents likely to take part in fighting any time soon after or during the exercises and the latter are a smoke screen to send soldiers to actual fighting. The last mentioned seems to be the case with Russia's troops. But Russia has had numerous exercises in the vicinity of Ukraine since 2014, and what is being discussed now is the ALERT STATE not the exercises. Alert states are not pre-planned.

Partially means that IIRC some were scheduled hastily when the Ukraine thing began, others were already scheduled before that.
And that they were scheduled before that already is part of the reason Russia felt threatened for a while already, so yes, they can contribute to escalation. Maybe you want to explain why it bothered the USA so much when Russia stationed nuclear missiles on Cuba when it was just a defensive measure in case the US would like, try to start an invasion of Cuba or something?

And Alert State can mean a lot, does it mean that their ammo is extra-lethal while they conduct the exercise or that they open their eyes a little wider?

[Gilrandir]

And that they were scheduled before that already is part of the reason Russia felt threatened for a while already, so yes, they can contribute to escalation.

Russia feels threatened and does its best to make the whole world feel threatened.

Maybe you want to explain why it bothered the USA so much when Russia stationed nuclear missiles on Cuba when it was just a defensive measure in case the US would like, try to start an invasion of Cuba or something?

Were there any nuclear wepons recently stationed close enough to Russia for it to feel so much threatened?

[Brenus]

“Were there any nuclear weapons recently stationed close enough to Russia for it to feel so much threatened?” Turkey?
http://www.nti.org/country-profiles/turkey/

Close enough?

[Husar]

http://www.thelocal.de/20120905/44779

Germany?