Ukraine Thread

[Brenus]

"I would say that Israeli is citizenship (Israeli is a citizen of Israel). And they can be of different ethnicity - Jewish, Arab, Ukrainian, Russian..." Always difficult to define all these concepts: My Israeli friend is an atheist Jew. His nationality is Israeli (and french), his culture Jew, religion none. The problem is in this list there is a mixture of "arab" (Culture?) Nationality (Ukrainian) and religion (Jewish).
In the frame work you propose my friend could be European French Israeli.

[Papewaio]

Like a lot of words Jew has multiple meanings with individuals displaying some or all characteristics.

You can be Jewish ethnically ie parent(s) are Jewish
Jewish religion
Jewish culturally

I have a friend who identifies himself as ethnically and culturally Jewish. But he sees religion as a crutch and is an atheist.

Helps to understand that religion and culture and interwined and with expectations that you only marry within a group an ethnic group will form over time, and more specialized groupings as the strictures on who you marry. There are some Jewish communities who have genetic diseases, that are very rare in the outside world, commonly occurring within their communities. Much like Royalty...

[Gilrandir]

http://maidantranslations.com/2015/0...freesavchenko/

[Gilrandir]

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1...ch-more-crimea
Ran into this article. Nothing new or surprising if it weren't for the date. It seems that Novorossia was on Russia's agenda long before March 2014. So much for "Putin was only reacting and saving what he could".

[GenosseGeneral]

I was actually looking for an English-language article which quotes Merkel ruling out Ukraine's EU membership. Yet I found that there are actually 3 types of headlines summarizing that speech:
a) "Ukraine crisis makes Eastern Partnership more important"
b) "No Russian return to G7 without progress in Eastern Ukraine"
c) "Merkel rules our Ukraine becoming a EU member"
https://www.google.ru/search?client=...nel=fs&tbm=nws

I actually only wanted to congratulate her on finally being honest, in contrast to our American friends who continue their empty promises of NATO Ukraine's ascension. I believe it is high time for clear communication with the Ukrainian people: Europe is not willing to spend the billions necessary to prevent an economic meltdown, as those funds would end up in corrupt officials' pockets anyway. We are also not willing to deliver substantial military aid and no matter how much we deliver, Russia would always keep the upper hand anyway (as she prove in Ilovaysk and Debalzeve).

Regarding the Banderovzy: As much as I see the need for Ukraine's patriots to build their own, non-soviet narrative of WW2, they should not choose the UPA. It has indeed carried out ethnic cleanses against Polish. Glorifying the UPA is not only a provocation for Russia and significant parts of the Ukrainian population, it can potentially alienate Ukraine's closest ally: Poland. The UPA was a highly dubious organization, sometimes collaborating with the Nazis, sometimes fighting them and there are way too much dark grey tones in its history to glorify it as unanimously as they do in Lviv (I remember street names like Vulitsa Heroiv UPA and Vulitsa Stepanu Banderu as well a shiny marble monument in their honour).
That being said, I am evenly disgusted by the way they frame it here in Russia, though. What they tell you here is that it was as essentially some Ukrainian branch of the Nazi party/SS, which enthusiastically collaborated with the Nazis. What is even worse is how they without thinking for a second simply assume, that Western Ukrainians hold the same views as their ancestors. As if I would be a Nazi ready to commit another Holocaust, just because I am German.


Heck, those comments always become longer in the end than I originally intended.

[Brenus]

"So much for "Putin was only reacting and saving what he could"." The New Republic's Ukraine Newsletter. is your very independent source. Can you link directly with www.ukraine.gov.prop (for propaganda) (or equivalent) please, that will cut a lot of time

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32840502

Russian soldiers have apparently confessed being, well, Russian soldiers, to OBSE monitors.

[Gilrandir]

I
The UPA was a highly dubious organization, sometimes collaborating with the Nazis, sometimes fighting them and there are way too much dark grey tones in its history to glorify it as unanimously...

Replace "UPA" with "the Red Army" and it will hold true as well.
My point was that EVERYBODY eventually fighting against Nazis could at some moment between 1938 and 1945 be called a collaborator.

"So much for "Putin was only reacting and saving what he could"." The New Republic's Ukraine Newsletter. is your very independent source. Can you link directly with www.ukraine.gov.prop (for propaganda) (or equivalent) please, that will cut a lot of time

So you mean that Edward Luttwak (the author of the article posted at this despicable site) on March 9 2014 didn't say anything about Novorossia project being in preparation in Russia? The reputation of the site (which you don't like) makes Edward Luttwak a liar of a fictitious character?