Ukraine Thread

**Gilrandir** · 06-18-2015, 16:18

Originally Posted by Brenus

If even the US start to see it now!!!
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/06/1...le-in-ukraine/

What I like about Brenus is that he never links any sources which publish lies and propaganda. The one above included. The initial passage leaves no doubt about both (lies and propaganda):

The U.S. House of Representatives has admitted an ugly truth that the U.S. mainstream media has tried to hide from the American people – that the post-coup regime in Ukraine has relied heavily on Nazi storm troopers to carry out its bloody war against ethnic Russians, reports Robert Parry.

The very form of the phrase reeks of propaganda and the statement of the "war against ethnic Russians" is a lie - ethnic Russians are there on both sides of fighting, but the majority of Mariupol (as well as whole Donbas) population are ethnic Ukrainians. The "leaders" of both DPR and LPR (Zakharchenko and Plotnytsky) are ethnic Ukrainians. As I have said, this war lacks all the prerequisites neccessary to qualify it as ethnic, linguistic or confessional. I see that the author of the article has a grudge against "the mainstream American media", so his ire is aimed not so at nazis, but at NYT.

And as I have also said, nazis are on both sides of fighting. Be careful, the following article may cause a cognitive dissonance - Right Sector captures nazis: https://belsat.eu/en/articles/ukrain...ary-shyrokyne/

Brenus, Brenus ....

I can't believe you to do what you so vehemently seem to detest - linking the articles the quality of which might have been the subject matter of your PhD thesis.

And where is Sarmatian with his righteous anger? He should have been the first to detect and swoop at a forum-spoiler. Or is a common view on things a justification for condoning sins?
Franklin D. Roosevelt (supposedly): "Somoza may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch".

Originally Posted by GenosseGeneral

As to that article on the Donbass: The author has a point in saying that its industry structure is aged. Any restructuring of old heavy industry areas is difficult, look at the US' rust belt, the German Ruhr area or Britain's former industrial centers. The suggestion to turn it into an agricultural region does not make ANY sense AT ALL. First of all, Ukraine has already a huge agricultural sector. In fact, the majority of her central and Western Oblast' are considered to be agricultural. And those are Ukraine's poorest regions for a reason... plus, the soil of a region used by Soviet heavy industry for decades is very likely full of stuff you don't really want on your plate.

I am not sure argiculture will work well with Donbas, chemical industry seems a better option since there are (or were) some working facilities there, thus the qualified employees also. As for the old industries, I think they are as good as dead. Many enterprises are ruined and as for those that are not - Ukraine is unlikely to face East in the foreseeable future and the only market for such industries (given the low quality of the products) is there. That said, Donbas under current conditions has become a huge pain in the neck for Ukraine. So the real return of it will bring more harm than benefit to Ukraine.

By the way, how was your stay in Russia?

**Brenus** · 06-18-2015, 18:09

"I can't believe you to do what you so vehemently seem to detest - linking the articles the quality of which might have been the subject matter of your PhD thesis." You are right not to believe it. But you choose to ignore the "because this one is buyer, other links..."
You will never change... or learn...

**Gilrandir** · 06-19-2015, 13:07

Originally Posted by Brenus

"I can't believe you to do what you so vehemently seem to detest - linking the articles the quality of which might have been the subject matter of your PhD thesis." You are right not to believe it. But you choose to ignore the "because this one is buyer, other links..."
You will never change... or learn...

It is good to know that you do, though. During my short sojourn on this forum I have seen you only once link an openly biased article, now was the time for the second. A tendency?
If you knew its nature than you had "an agenda" (as you like to call it) posting it. I can't see no other reason of it except an attempt to appear to sound more persuasive through linking several (instead of one) article and creating an effect "you see, so many sources corroborate what I claim". Nice try.

**Gilrandir** · 06-20-2015, 16:24

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/06...on-to-several/
If Putin's grip on his counrty is so secure (polls give him 86% support), why so much fuss about moving the elections sooner?
And there are voices who want to do the same with the next presidential elections:
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/kudrin-u...eform/41499004