Ukraine Thread

**Husar** · 09-19-2015, 17:21

Originally Posted by Gilrandir

http://joinfo.com/world/1008671_russ...he-donbas.html
Well, I liked that.
- Will you go to Donbas to kill your Ukrainian brethren?
- Alrighty.
- Sorry guys, there has been a change to the initial plan - you are going to Syria to kill those dirty (in the direct meaning - "nonhygienic") Arabs.
- Oh no. The deal is off.

Syria seems super funny (if we ignore the actual human tragedies for a moment).
Lots of refugees noone wants,, lots of parties noone supports and now the only big power in the world that wants to get boots on the grounds to stop the islamists by supporting the similarly disliked dictator is so unorganized that it cannot even get its own soldiers to go.

**Gilrandir** · 09-20-2015, 13:56

Originally Posted by Husar

Syria seems super funny (if we ignore the actual human tragedies for a moment).
Lots of refugees noone wants,, lots of parties noone supports and now the only big power in the world that wants to get boots on the grounds to stop the islamists by supporting the similarly disliked dictator is so unorganized that it cannot even get its own soldiers to go.

After his "Russian spring" debacle, for Putin Syria seems to be the last chance to get his boots on the ground at least somewhere, to prove (to himself and to his supporters) that he is still a world player with a long reach and perhaps to exchange something in Donbas and Crimea for his Syrian (non)involvement.

Don't know if you heard this one:
http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine.../27233898.html

According to Russian sources, the nickname Yatsenyuk used participating in Chechen war was ... ready? ... "Viking".

**Hooahguy** · 09-20-2015, 21:47

Ok so slightly off topic to the immediate discussion, does anyone know what the official Greek position on the Ukraine crisis? I know that they voted for more sanctions on Russia after the annexation and they officially condemned Russian intervention, but then Alexis Tsipras said that the EU shouldnt be supporting the far-right Ukrainian government. Cant really find anything else on the topic though and I have to represent the Greek position on Ukraine tomorrow.

**Crandar** · 09-20-2015, 22:08

Originally Posted by Hooahguy

Ok so slightly off topic to the immediate discussion, does anyone know what the official Greek position on the Ukraine crisis? I know that they voted for more sanctions on Russia after the annexation and they officially condemned Russian intervention, but then Alexis Tsipras said that the EU shouldnt be supporting the far-right Ukrainian government. Cant really find anything else on the topic though and I have to represent the Greek position on Ukraine tomorrow.

Initially,SYRIZA commented positively on Russia, but they quickly changed their position and supported the EU's sanctions. It was more of a PR movement to please their leftist audience, not a conscious change of policy.
The only sympathetic towards Russia members of SYRIZA left the party and formed a new one, called Popular Unity, which failed to get in the Parliament in today's elections. So, SYRIZA Greece is not anything special, in fact, they are sometimes rather pro-NATO, with a very friendly stance towards Kosovo and a request to NATO to augment its military presence in the Aegean Sea.

**Hooahguy** · 09-20-2015, 22:45

Gotcha. So while they are pro-NATO as you say, it kind of seems like in the other hand they are cozying up to Russia. I remember reading a while ago that they are thinking about letting Russia use some Greek bases. So it kinda seems like they arent really as pro-NATO as you say they are as if they were, then I dont think they would be as friendly to Russia as they are right now. Maybe not so much as not voting for sanctions or condemning the annexation of the Crimea, but considering that NATO needs a unanimous vote to take action should something happen, then a Greece that is friendly to Russia could be a dangerous thing.

**Montmorency** · 09-20-2015, 23:08

It's called 'covering your bases'. See also: leverage.

**Hooahguy** · 09-20-2015, 23:19

That is actually an interesting aspect I have not thought of: warming up to Russia could just be used as leverage, maybe to persuade the rest of the EU to ease off the pressure for the debt crisis. Or threaten them for relief.

**Crandar** · 09-21-2015, 06:31

Originally Posted by Hooahguy

Gotcha. So while they are pro-NATO as you say, it kind of seems like in the other hand they are cozying up to Russia. I remember reading a while ago that they are thinking about letting Russia use some Greek bases. So it kinda seems like they arent really as pro-NATO as you say they are as if they were, then I dont think they would be as friendly to Russia as they are right now. Maybe not so much as not voting for sanctions or condemning the annexation of the Crimea, but considering that NATO needs a unanimous vote to take action should something happen, then a Greece that is friendly to Russia could be a dangerous thing.

Their friendly towards Russia policy stopped only a month or two after they got elected. The ministry of defense even suggested to give an entire island to NATO (Carpathus) and join their fight against ISIS and ally ourselves with el-Sisi.
In my opinion, they leverage is NATO not Russia, they repeatedly tried to threaten Merkel, by approaching USA and planning something laughable, like replacing Puerto Rico as a new state of America. I'm not kidding, that scenario was seriously examined by some far-right nutjobs that participated in the government.

In what concerns our alliance with the US and membership of NATO, every part is in favour of them, with three exceptions:

Popular Unity (which broke away from SYRIZA) is the sort of stupid leftists who think that Russia is more progressive than the US.

Golden Dawn, not because Putin finances them, but the Greek nationalism was always tied with Russia and the third Constantinople. Same religion, anti-turkish foreign policy and we got independence and Thessaly thanks to them.

Originally Posted by Hooahguy

That is actually an interesting aspect I have not thought of: warming up to Russia could just be used as leverage, maybe to persuade the rest of the EU to ease off the pressure for the debt crisis. Or threaten them for relief.

Perhaps, that's an explanation for their behaviou, but when their approach to Putin failed (last spring), there was no point at continuing it. All the media attacked them very aggressively (just for visiting Moscow) and they probably realised that they lost not gained votes.

The Communist Party of Greece supports neither side in the Ukrainian Civil War, believing it is a fight between urban classes, one supporter of the West the other of Russia, so the Ukrainain people do not have common interests with them. There was an interesting article about a communist leader of some East-Russian partisans who got assassinated, probably by his fellow pro-Russian partisans, but it's not in English.