Ukraine Thread

[Fragony]

You two were most likely right.

It's getting kinda silly that referendum, CIA is investigating possible ties to Putin. That's pretty lol. Referendum was enfforced by the perfectly harmless weblog Geenstijl who urge those in favour to vote as well. It's not legally binding anyway, they can (and will) ignore the outcome.

[Gilrandir]

You two were most likely right.

It's getting kinda silly that referendum, CIA is investigating possible ties to Putin. That's pretty lol. Referendum was enfforced by the perfectly harmless weblog Geenstijl who urge those in favour to vote as well. It's not legally binding anyway, they can (and will) ignore the outcome.

How will you vote?

[Fragony]

How will you vote?

Against, there is a civil war going on, it isn't just a trade treaty but also a military one. The EU shouldn't get too close to Russia. Ukraine is also very poor and pretty corrupt.

[Gilrandir]

Against, there is a civil war going on, it isn't just a trade treaty but also a military one.

This is the first time I hear of a military aspect of the treaty. Or is the EU a military organization?

The EU shouldn't get too close to Russia.

It may surprise you, but Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Finland are the EU members and are as close to Russia as you may want - they have a common border with Russia. And Georgia with which the EU signed AA is in the same situation.

Ukraine is also very poor and pretty corrupt.

That is true, but in some EU countries at the moment of their joining the EU corruption was similarly severe. Some say that in Bulgaria, for example, it is still not eradicated.

[wooly_mammoth]

^Romania and Bulgaria are still very bad in this department, but I don't think they compare with countries like Ukraine or the Republic of Moldova. At least we are making some headway, but those guys are taffed until the next ice age, in the optimistic estimation.

[Fragony]

EU is no military organisation, I don't know the specifics but there certainly is a military aspect. Fair enough about other countries being just as close, but they aren't as devided, I think it's asking for trouble. But the treaty is going to come anyway, the EU has already said we can shove the outcome up our asses, good news for Ukraine but not for us, nor for our current government (that IS good for us), not the first time a referendum was just ignored.

[Gilrandir]

EU is no military organisation, I don't know the specifics but there certainly is a military aspect.

I doubt it, there is NATO for this purpose.

[Fragony]

I doubt it, there is NATO for this purpose.

It's not what I say but what others say, but that is not the only reason to vote against this treaty, in the most egoistical form, it's going to cost a lot and there aren't any benefits, the billions that go to Greece are nothing compared to what will go to Ukraine, economic experts expect a 36% increase of inflation (yeah I know 'experts'). It's just not worth the trouble, nothing personal

[Husar]

I doubt it, there is NATO for this purpose.

IIRC, similar to NATO, an attack on an EU member state is seen as an attack on the EU or so...

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/summary/glo...l_defence.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...t-does-it-mean

Of course if you ask me, I find it strange that France invoked the clause for armed aggression when there is a clause for terrorist attacks (see first link), but I assume in 10 years we are far enough to invoke a nuclear attack clause if a muslim so much as scratches someone.

I also like how you guys discussed this for several posts and noone spent the 2 minutes it took me to search and read up on it.

[Husar]

Funny enough, however hard you might have spent the two minutes you didn't help a tiny bit. We were speaking of ASSOCIATION AGREEMENT, not of MEMBERSHIP.

EU is no military organisation, I don't know the specifics but there certainly is a military aspect.

I'm sorry that I overlooked the part where he said ASSOCIATION AGREEMENT, but it's okay, I forgive everyone.

[Gilrandir]

I'm sorry that I overlooked the part where he said ASSOCIATION AGREEMENT, but it's okay, I forgive everyone.

The starting point of the discussion of us two lazybones was the Dutch referendum on Ukraine-EU ASSOCIATION AGREEMENT. So everything said further bore on this issue. Perhaps you were too lazy to get to post # 930 from post # 937 (where you joined the discussion), but I forgive you.

[Fragony]

nvm

[Strike For The South]

It's February 19 2016 and Putin is still a fascist.

I'm convinced 90% of you supporting Putin are bigots because of Russia's very well documented problems with Gays, Browns, and Muslims. Things which Putin us currently stoking.

This is easy, no wonder this is what people do.

[Fragony]

That is true but almost everythin east of Germany has these issues. I find Russia to be really calm, especially after a jet was shot down, never expected they would be. Turkey or rather Erdogan is a problem

[Brenus]

"I'm convinced 90% of you supporting Putin are bigots because of Russia's very well documented problems with Gays, Browns, and Muslims. Things which Putin us currently stoking" Yeap. Putin is in fact a good american Republican candidate for presidency...

[Gilrandir]

How's this one then:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBimkM3Fb9I
It is the celebration of Putin's birthday in Chechnya.

There is no use denying the fact that totalitarian regimes built along the same lines expose striking similarities in many aspects, especially those pertaining to public ceremonies and other exhibitions of ideological tenets. And modern Russia is moving along the same lines with its 85% support of the leader.

The nazi roots of the song glorifying Putin (speaking of Hitlerjugend):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVu-VRB0KuE

[Brenus]

And:
https://youtu.be/EqolSvoWNck
or
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/video/...r-parade-video
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...unch-Mall.html
if you prefer...
https://youtu.be/XdM84-3_esY

And your link with the song is a great moment... Where is Putin is this? 10 (!) seconds of a folkloric group compared with the German Army and SA... That is a monument you just show... The putinisation of Russia is very well en route...