As it seems right now the M17 was shot down by Ukraine (no offence intended to Ukrainian members), but M17 seems to have been guided over hostile territory. Ukraine says the radar-stations were down, all? The Americans have the satelite-images nobody asked for here in the Netherlands, this is getting odd.

Allow me to be cynical, is the lives of over 200 innocent people worth less than an association treaty? Not looking at you Ukraine I am sure it was a mistake if it was you, just curious what really happened. Wouldn't call it a friend but someone I know (hardly) died there There were jets, there were high altitude weapon systems.