Ukraine Thread

[Fragony]

The map says 61% against. Which is the correct number?

61.1 against
38.1 in favour
the rest blank
33.2 attendance

Those are the final numbers

edit, there is still a margin for error, my bad

[Gilrandir]

61.1 against
38.1 in favour
the rest blank
33.2 attendance

Those are the final numbers

edit, there is still a margin for error, my bad

So it's like 20% of all Dutch are against AA? Can we say that 20% decide what is right for all the country?

And if it is ≈60 vs 40, can we say that the Dutch are a deeply divided nation?

[Fragony]

So it's like 20% of all Dutch are against AA? Can we say that 20% decide what is right for all the country?

And if it is ≈60 vs 40, can we say that the Dutch are a deeply divided nation?

Matter of how people look at things, some think we give a mandate for 4 years, some think we should have a more direct say in things, and most in general dispise the EU. Critics of the referendum probably rightfully claim that it's more about the EU just doing as it pleases than it is about Ukraine, I would never dare saying that isn't a huge motivation for some, myself partially included, I kinda enjoy giving the EU and our government the finger I won't deny that. But there are very good reasons to be against this treaty regardless.

[Snowhobbit]

61.1 against
38.1 in favour
the rest blank
33.2 attendance

Those are the final numbers

edit, there is still a margin for error, my bad

Would the low attendance in some way give wiggleroom for the Dutch government to weasel out of what the referendum gave as a strong result? Given that as Gilrandir posted, in total only about 20% voted against it out of the eligible population.

[Fragony]

Would the low attendance in some way give wiggleroom for the Dutch government to weasel out of what the referendum gave as a strong result? Given that as Gilrandir posted, in total only about 20% voted against it out of the eligible population.

They can do that even if 100% showed up and voted no. We have seen that before with the EU-consitution referendum which we also said no to, took out the EU-athem and called it the Lissabon-treaty, and pushed it through despite the French and the Dutch rejecting it. Something similar is going to happen now, something that's irrelevant is taken out, treaty gets a new name, that's how the EU rolls. It's more of a problem for our national government who ars at an all-time low. We have put them in a very uncomfortable position with a no in a (enforced) referendum, the Dutch no will have no consequences for Ukraine whatsoever,everything has already been sneaked in a few months ago, few no-voter are as stupid as to think something substantial was ackomplished. See it as a bitchslap

Thing is, what was done now can be done again, with more resolve because we are going to be played again, and we will continue to it untill every old-boy's network here is insignificant.

[Snowhobbit]

They can do that even if 100% showed up and voted no. We have seen that before with the EU-consitution referendum which we also said no to, took out the EU-athem and called it the Lissabon-treaty, and pushed it through despite the French and the Dutch rejecting it. Something similar is going to happen now, something that's irrelevant is taken out, treaty gets a new name, that's how the EU rolls. It's more of a problem for our national government who ars at an all-time low. We have put them in a very uncomfortable position with a no in a (enforced) referendum, the Dutch no will have no consequences for Ukraine whatsoever,everything has already been sneaked in a few months ago.

So this whole thing was essentially meaningless then? I would say with only 20% of the population being so strongly against it that they go all the way to a voting booth, it won't be too much of a political issue for the government.

[Lizardo]

No, Snowhobbit the way polls usually work is that if you poll say 20 percent of the population and 80 percent vote no the results are upscaled as more or less representative of the general populous,
thats the method for TV ratings as they select a few households to have a device which notes what channel and program you are watching, most people dont vote in general elections anyway. So you can take what you want out of it.

[Snowhobbit]

No, Snowhobbit the way polls usually work is that if you poll say 20 percent of the population and 80 percent vote no the results are upscaled as more or less representative of the general populous,
thats the method for TV ratings as they select a few households to have a device which notes what channel and program you are watching, most people dont vote in general elections anyway. So you can take what you want out of it.

[snip]
Polls are polls and elections are elections.
61.1=/=80

[Fragony]

So this whole thing was essentially meaningless then? I would say with only 20% of the population being so strongly against it that they go all the way to a voting booth, it won't be too much of a political issue for the government.

Yep it was always meaningless, it's not binding. I am against that treaty and voted no but I already knew it has always been futile. But the government will have to thread a bit more kindly now that they know what a simple weblog can ackomplish; it takes 300.000 signatures to enforce a referendum, they had almost half million in a week. The reverendum itself needs 30% of the voting population before it has to be even considered, and that succeeded as well. Even then it can just be ignored. But we can do it again and again and again. Top-tier trolling really.

In the foreign media you keep seeing Wilders, but he had nothing to do with this masterclass, weblog geenstijl.nl is behind it.

[Gilrandir]

No, Snowhobbit the way polls usually work is that if you poll say 20 percent of the population and 80 percent vote no the results are upscaled as more or less representative of the general populous,
thats the method for TV ratings as they select a few households to have a device which notes what channel and program you are watching, most people dont vote in general elections anyway. So you can take what you want out of it.

This was no polling in the meaning that you have to ask a small number of people to get the general picture more or less correctly. This was voting which doesn't work this way.

it takes 300.000 signatures to enforce a referendum, they had almost half million in a week. The reverendum itself needs 30% of the voting population before it has to be even considered, and that succeeded as well. Even then it can just be ignored. But we can do it again and again and again.

Then get a referendum on the EU membership (as the British) and have done with it once and for all.

[Fragony]

Then get a referendum on the EU membership (as the British) and have done with it once and for all.

We can't do that sadly, changing consitution ain't that easy. But it have been some good times to see eurocrats panicking 'THE ONLY ALTERNATIVE FOR THE EU IS WAR', 'IT WILL CAUSE AN CONTINENTAL CRISIS', quality media and state media abroad going nuts, EVERYBODY here knows that that referendum was never binding. You lot have fallen for the best organised prank ever. There are really serious objections our beloved parlement will have to answer for to be taken even remotily seriously. good luck fooing us again. But all in all you all have been reeled in like a big fat fish.

gg

edit, the EC does exactly what we hoped they would do, give us the finger and say they are going to do it anyway. Brits are you listening? You know what to do

[Snowhobbit]

Yep it was always meaningless, it's not binding. I am against that treaty and voted no but I already knew it has always been futile. But the government will have to thread a bit more kindly now that they know what a simple weblog can ackomplish; it takes 300.000 signatures to enforce a referendum, they had almost half million in a week. The reverendum itself needs 30% of the voting population before it has to be even considered, and that succeeded as well. Even then it can just be ignored. But we can do it again and again and again. Top-tier trolling really.

In the foreign media you keep seeing Wilders, but he had nothing to do with this masterclass, weblog geenstijl.nl is behind it.

To be honest this isn't getting covered very much in our press, we have plenty of our own stupid stuff to deal with at the moment.

Here if a referendum gives a negative result it is binding for parliament, presuming that it is a referendum about changing the constitution. Otherwise they are simply advisory and as such serve little function.