Results 1 to 30 of 1561

Thread: Ukraine Thread

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    4,010

    Default Re: UKRAINE thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    For the first post, that wasn't at all what he was saying, but I don't really care about your opinion.
    You saw what you saw and it doesn't mean it was the way you saw. Like it was with Putin's words on Crimea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Whenever you become too obnoxious, the thread turns into you communicating with yourself by posting link after link.
    You forgot what you taught me, Master: attack the argument, not the person.

    As for "communicating with yourself": while not idealizing myself and my style of posting I see other reasons for such development: people just lost interest in the topic. So if I see anything that I consider worth posting I do post it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    As far as second post is concerned, I have no idea who the guy is and what he has to do with Bandera.
    He is a war (and not only) criminal who seems to be now glorified in Serbia (the very thing you cautioned Ukrainians against giving Bandera as an example).

    http://mashable.com/2015/04/09/russi.../#XxOx4HL.skqH


    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "And I wanted Brenus to explain it." Err, why should have to explain your mental process? Be responsible for your words, I am for mine.
    MY mental process? You make mutually exclusive claims (Montenegro isn't worth accepting into NATO and NATO is not that stupid to fail to see the worthlessness of Montenegro as a NATO member) and want ME to explain it?
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 11-13-2016 at 07:57.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  2. #2
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Wokingham
    Posts
    3,523

    Default Re: UKRAINE thread

    "Montenegro isn't worth accepting into NATO and NATO is not that stupid to fail to see the worthlessness of Montenegro as a NATO member" These are your words, not mine. Quote?
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

  3. #3
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,617

    Default Re: UKRAINE thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    MY mental process? You make mutually exclusive claims (Montenegro isn't worth accepting into NATO and NATO is not that stupid to fail to see the worthlessness of Montenegro as a NATO member) and want ME to explain it?
    I wouldn't call them mutually exclusive if you allow for the existence of some degree of altruism, pride and perhaps also strategic location and public image.
    It can be worthless in terms of military contribution, or that is how I understood it, but it still helps the NATO portrayal of a safety umbrella for those who feel threatened and is therefore a worthy member.
    By the way, too lazy to check the originals now, but the two positions you "quoted" there basically say the same thing, that NATO shouldn't/wouldn't accept Montenegro.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  4. #4
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    4,010

    Default Re: UKRAINE thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "Montenegro isn't worth accepting into NATO and NATO is not that stupid to fail to see the worthlessness of Montenegro as a NATO member" These are your words, not mine. Quote?
    Be my guest:

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    Montegro: 622,000 hbts.
    US (NATO) base in Kosovo.
    Really, what would be the interest of Montenegro for NATO? Naval Bases? Croatia would be more than happy to offer that... And Croatia has all the former military naval ports built by Tito.

    The only thing worth to fight for in Montenegro is olive oil and Malboro made in Russia smuggling....
    Ergo: Montenegro is worthless for NATO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "So NATO is inveterately stupid in accepting Montenegro?" No.
    Ergo: NATO is not that stupid to see Montenegro is worthless for it.

    Yet we know NATO IS COOPTING Montenegro. How come?

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    I wouldn't call them mutually exclusive if you allow for the existence of some degree of altruism, pride and perhaps also strategic location and public image.
    It can be worthless in terms of military contribution, or that is how I understood it, but it still helps the NATO portrayal of a safety umbrella for those who feel threatened and is therefore a worthy member.
    This is how I see it. Not so Brenus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  5. #5
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Wokingham
    Posts
    3,523

    Default Re: UKRAINE thread

    "Ergo: Montenegro is worthless for NATO." No. Your words, not my quote. Your opinion is a country populated of 600,000 inhabitants (hbts) is worthless, not mine.
    "How come?" That is easy to answer: To bite Russia.

    "I wouldn't call them mutually exclusive if you allow for the existence of some degree of altruism, pride and perhaps also strategic location and public image." Altruism? We speak of the same NATO? Strategic location? Did you had a look on a map, recently? Public image, perhaps.
    Montenegro feel threatened by whom?
    And can I remind you that two NATO member-states of NATO and more or less at war? So much of the "safety umbrella" .
    Last edited by Brenus; 11-13-2016 at 22:48.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

  6. #6
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    4,010

    Default Re: UKRAINE thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "Ergo: Montenegro is worthless for NATO." No. Your words, not my quote. Your opinion is a country populated of 600,000 inhabitants (hbts) is worthless, not mine.
    # 1238 - the whole post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    Montegro: 622,000 hbts.
    US (NATO) base in Kosovo.
    Really, what would be the interest of Montenegro for NATO? Naval Bases? Croatia would be more than happy to offer that... And Croatia has all the former military naval ports built by Tito.

    The only thing worth to fight for in Montenegro is olive oil and Malboro made in Russia smuggling....
    My words, you say?
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  7. #7
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    11,454

    Default Re: UKRAINE thread

    This thread doth wander...
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

    Member thankful for this post:

    Husar 


  8. #8
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Wokingham
    Posts
    3,523

    Default Re: UKRAINE thread

    "My words, you say?" Yes. Where do you read unworthy (worthless)? You are a linguist, you know the importance of words. There are no reason for NATO to built bases in Montenegro, it is not the same of Montenegro is unworthy as you said, is it?
    You put a disdain that I didn't. YOUR words, not mine. And you can try to distort the wording as much you want, YOU put an adjective in it.
    So, except to upset Russia, what is the reason to have Montenegro in NATO? Naval bases? No. Land bases? No. Airbases? No. For each NATO as plenty of all all around the Balkans. This not a the disdain you showed to Montenegro, it is a reality check.
    You should try it.
    Last edited by Brenus; 11-14-2016 at 20:14.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

  9. #9
    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    5,812

    Default Re: UKRAINE thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "How come?" That is easy to answer: To bite Russia.
    ...or, it could be a case of Montenegro wanting to pursue closer relations with USA and Europe. And the rest of NATO welcoming that.

    Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.


    (edit: Canada too :P)
    Last edited by Kralizec; 11-14-2016 at 23:49.

    Members thankful for this post (2):



  10. #10
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    4,010

    Default Re: UKRAINE thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "My words, you say?" Yes. Where do you read unworthy (worthless)? You are a linguist, you know the importance of words. There are no reason for NATO to built bases in Montenegro, it is not the same of Montenegro is unworthy as you said, is it?
    You put a disdain that I didn't. YOUR words, not mine. And you can try to distort the wording as much you want, YOU put an adjective in it.
    So, except to upset Russia, what is the reason to have Montenegro in NATO? Naval bases? No. Land bases? No. Airbases? No. For each NATO as plenty of all all around the Balkans. This not a the disdain you showed to Montenegro, it is a reality check.
    You should try it.
    I didn't show any disdain. This is YOUR interpretation (or rather perversion) of my words. I used the word in the meaning:

    worthless adjective (NOT IMPORTANT)

    not important or not useful:
    She was criticized so much by her employers that she began to feel worthless.


    http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...lish/worthless

    For me, presenting no interest as a future ally = worthless as a future ally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  11. #11
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    11,454

    Default Re: UKRAINE thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    ...For me, presenting no interest as a future ally = worthless as a future ally.
    Superficially, NATO is simply a defense alliance. On that prima facie basis, your basic point of assessment -- value to defensive alliance -- would clearly suggest Montenegran irrelevance.

    NATO is, functionally, much more than that -- for good or for ill. I think Kralizec as the right of it in his post immediately above.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO