Ukraine Thread

[Brenus]

"Putanist?" or "Republican" Fits as well...

"In a wheelchair no less -- why not push ALL of the emotional buttons of the West and have her show up with a cute little puppy as well...." I hope you are deeply ashamed of this comment.
Whatever your opinion on Russia's politic, whatever your opinion about her political view to which she is entitled to, you speak of a human being.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

"Putanist?" or "Republican" Fits as well...

Sure, if you're Octavianus Augustus.

"In a wheelchair no less -- why not push ALL of the emotional buttons of the West and have her show up with a cute little puppy as well...." I hope you are deeply ashamed of this comment.
Whatever your opinion on Russia's politic, whatever your opinion about her political view to which she is entitled to, you speak of a human being.

I think this is a comment on the Kremlin's cynicism, we should be able to discuss that openly. The fact she is confined to a wheelchair does not mean her status as a wheelchair user cannot be used for political gain, nor does it mean she cannot be party to such cynicism.

None of which in any way detracts from the issue of disability and equality generally.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

"Putanist?..."In a wheelchair no less -- why not push ALL of the emotional buttons of the West and have her show up with a cute little puppy as well...." I hope you are deeply ashamed of this comment.
Whatever your opinion on Russia's politic, whatever your opinion about her political view to which she is entitled to, you speak of a human being.

Why should I be? I am not the one exploiting her disability for advantage. If anything, I was being snide towards Western culture's response to her disability and our overly emotional response to pets and the fact that we tend to focus on such things instead of the substantive aspects of this issue (her talent vis-à-vis the singing and Russian exploitation of these superficial elements for political advantage).

[Sarmatian]

Well, there is the entire idea that Russia purposefully orchestrated a win for disabled Crimean singer so that Ukraine ends up between a rock and a hard place.

It is just as conceivable that most Russians get overly emotional about disabled persons and her being from Crimea certainly helped her chances. Basically all she had to do to win was have a song that doesn't suck utterly.

Sympathy votes go a long way. Ukraine won last year with a song titled "1944" which is about persecution of Crimean Tatars...

[Brenus]

Why should I be? I am not the one exploiting her disability for advantage. If anything, I was being snide towards Western culture's response to her disability and our overly emotional response to pets and the fact that we tend to focus on such things instead of the substantive aspects of this issue (her talent vis-à-vis the singing and Russian exploitation of these superficial elements for political advantage).

That is your view. She was chosen because she is in a wheelchair... Or perhaps because she has talent? Or she touches the Russian soul?
https://youtu.be/gkv17jMnFNY
Funny enough, a French group did sing about deportation and war (Je n'oublie pas)
https://youtu.be/tJful-Jtc9o?list=RDtJful-Jtc9o.
Hungary had a song about Palestine (Wars for Nothing)...
https://youtu.be/MdybVsBESQc
All these songs were playing on feelings and emotional response. YOU are the one saying it is a exploitation. My wife is watching this king of programs (UK & US) and I don't count how many times I heard about moms having cancer and contestants losing best friends and so and so... So, you make a exeption of this handicapped person for your political view. That is why you should be ashamed.

Ukraine decided what politically correct is, so some are banned, some not, 1944 was not... Ukraine will do to European Song Contest what did happened to Olympic Games...
But I least I give to Ukraine it is clearly for their political view, not because she is on a wheel chair.

[Gilrandir]

Let's be honest, he's more successful than a Fascist.

We need a new term...

Putanist?

"Putana" means "a prostitute" in Russian. This is no joke.

http://www.multitran.ru/c/m.exe?l1=2&l2=1&s=prosty

It is just as conceivable that most Russians get overly emotional about disabled persons and her being from Crimea certainly helped her chances.

She is not from Crimea. She was on a tour in Crimea. And according to Ukrainian laws one can only enter the peninsula via continental Ukraine. Otherwise it is considered illegal crossing of the border and such people are banned from visiting Ukraine.

All these songs were playing on feelings and emotional response. YOU are the one saying it is a exploitation. My wife is watching this king of programs (UK & US) and I don't count how many times I heard about moms having cancer and contestants losing best friends and so and so... So, you make a exeption of this handicapped person for your political view. That is why you should be ashamed.

This is what Russia wants to hear - callous people jeer at a poor invalid and deny her right to show her talent.

Ukraine decided what politically correct is, so some are banned, some not, 1944 was not...

It is not only about her political stance (although it adds spice to the issue). See above on her violating the law.

[Brenus]

"It is not only about her political stance (although it adds spice to the issue). See above on her violating the law.

Of course.

"This is what Russia wants to hear - callous people jeer at a poor invalid and deny her right to show her talent." See, poor invalid... Deny to show her talent... You are playing on it. For what I read, she is a talented artist recognised a such in Russia before the contest. As she was chosen by the Russian public, which according to some are against Putin's Clique, I assume she has some success in her own country. So, far for been deny to show her talent. You reduce her as an invalid, implying that without being on a wheelchair, she is nothing, talentless...

This Ukrainian stupid decision is just playing right in the Russian's game, if any. And it won't be any game without Ukraine's decision to ban her.
But better to blame Putin than a ill political decision, I suppose...

[Kagemusha]

Putin doesnt care about blame. If you make a bad move in a chess game and your opponent gains advantage because of that, is the blame his? The same applies to this larger scenario in Ukraine. Russia was underestimated and they capitalized on that mistake.

[Gilrandir]

"This is what Russia wants to hear - callous people jeer at a poor invalid and deny her right to show her talent." See, poor invalid... Deny to show her talent... You are playing on it. For what I read, she is a talented artist recognised a such in Russia before the contest.

So, far for been deny to show her talent. You reduce her as an invalid, implying that without being on a wheelchair, she is nothing, talentless...

When and where did I deny her talent? She sings nicely and the song is not bad.
BUT: does Ukraine have to change/disregard its laws because a) she is talented; b) she sings well; c) she is an invalid?

As she was chosen by the Russian public, which according to some are against Putin's Clique, I assume she has some success in her own country.

The initial presupposition is wrong. She was not chosen by public. She was appointed by a jury after a closeted session and the decision was announced to the public. Do I have to say that the jury included the top officials connected with the cultural sphere who can never be against Putin's Clique since they are a part of it?

This Ukrainian stupid decision is just playing right in the Russian's game, if any. And it won't be any game without Ukraine's decision to ban her.
But better to blame Putin than a ill political decision, I suppose...

Again a wrong initial presupposition. Where did I say (or perhaps you have found any sources on that?) that Ukraine denied her entrance? The decision is still pending. I believe that the Ukrainian authorities are searching for a way out that will look most adequate and will be digestable for the community.

There are different options besides sheer ban and just letting her in (not voiced by the officials, mind you) discussed. Some people say that she should be banned but the ban should be lifted for the period of the contest where she should be allowed ONLY to stay at a hotel, attend the rehearsals and sing at the concert. After she is done she should be escorted to the airport and a stamp of banning her from visiting Ukraine for the term stipulated by the law should be put into her passport. Others say that she should be asked at crossing the border to say who Crimea belongs to - and depending on her response she should be either banned or let in. Still others suggest that at the airport she should run the guantlet between the lines of invalids who suffered injuries in Donbas and that those invalids should occupy the first two rows at the concert to serve a silent reproach to the artist who supports Russian policy towards Ukraine.

All of these are opinions from different people not responsible for the ultimate decision, but those who are (SBU) are still making up their mind (or are searching for way to explain why their desicion was the best one).

[Gilrandir]

Meanwhile, Ukraine introduced a ban on trade with "DPR" and "LPR".
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.d93929622743

[Brenus]

Again a wrong initial presupposition. Where did I say (or perhaps you have found any sources on that?) that Ukraine denied her entrance? The decision is still pending. I believe that the Ukrainian authorities are searching for a way out that will look most adequate and will be digestable for the community.

My mistake.
However, last time we had this kind of debate, when you told me that the Communist Party won't be banned, at the end, it was... So, as we say in French, boiled cat fears even cold water... It lost a bit in translation...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

That is your view. She was chosen because she is in a wheelchair... Or perhaps because she has talent? Or she touches the Russian soul?.

Sorry to have been unclear. I presumed she was talented and appealed to the audience -- the political shenanigans would not work if she was unskilled. thanks for the clip btw

[Pannonian]

When is her story being turned into an Oscar-bait film? Are we waiting for the denouement before the rights get snapped up? Brits like Tom Hooper are also quite good at doing this kind of sentimentalist crap (eg. The King's Speech).