Ukraine Thread

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

People always vote for someone (or something) who/that promises changes. You did this in case of Brexit, did you? Even if people support those who are at power they do that because they are promised to have "better us", "us 2.0". I believe it is a characteristic trait of humans - never to be satisfied with what they have and aspire for the better (when they vote for changes they always presume that the change will be for the better). So it isn't a problem for me.

The problem is that Zelensky presented himself (probably as Trump did) as a total opposite to politicians, as an average guy around the corner who built a successful self and knows how to build a successful country. He wanted to look an epitome of us (ordinary people) vs politicians of all views who lie, steal, embezzle, grab power and don't know how to rule the country. I somehow saw through this guise and never bought his promises. Like when he said he wouldn't hire his friends and business partners. But it is a natural thing to do - you surround yourself with those who you know and who you can rely upon. Why do you need to lie that you will hire total strangers? And all of this can be said about other promises of his. And all of this is very often exacerbated by the professional inadequacy of the people appointed by him.

I think the connection to Trump is apt - as John Oliver said, now anyone CAN be President. My point was more the kind of change people are voting for.

OK, in reality Zelensky is little better in terms of corruption than his predecessors, is at all, but at least the change he was promising was more than simply "higher pay, better job." At the very least the fact that his narrative of less corruption and more transparency caught fire shows that these are the things a lot of Ukrainians are prioritising.

That seems a positive thing in itself given you're in the middle of a civil ware - despite which the country didn't elect a former general.

[Gilrandir]

That seems a positive thing in itself given you're in the middle of a civil ware - despite which the country didn't elect a former general.

I thought that everybody realizes it is not a CIVIL war. The fact that there are Ukrainians across the frontline doesn't make it civil since it was started, is financed, supplied with weapons, ammo, fuel and regular army incursions at crucial moments by Russia. Moreover, Russia finances not only the combatants, but the civilians as well, the currency that is in circulation there is the Russian ruble and all leaders of the so called DNR and LNR were formerly Russian citizens and are now Russian stooges appointed and replaced at will from the Kremlin.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I thought that everybody realizes it is not a CIVIL war. The fact that there are Ukrainians across the frontline doesn't make it civil since it was started, is financed, supplied with weapons, ammo, fuel and regular army incursions at crucial moments by Russia. Moreover, Russia finances not only the combatants, but the civilians as well, the currency that is in circulation there is the Russian ruble and all leaders of the so called DNR and LNR were formerly Russian citizens and are now Russian stooges appointed and replaced at will from the Kremlin.

Of course our leadership cadres are aware of this. Some choose to believe the fig-leaf, others confront with words, none of our governments is willing to risk war with Russia to stop it. I have said that before and I have yet to see compelling evidence that that will change or that anything short of that will sway the Kremlin.

[Gilrandir]

Of course our leadership cadres are aware of this. Some choose to believe the fig-leaf, others confront with words, none of our governments is willing to risk war with Russia to stop it. I have said that before and I have yet to see compelling evidence that that will change or that anything short of that will sway the Kremlin.

I didn't mean authorities of any country, I meant people on these boards.

[Gilrandir]

JIT on MH17 acknowledges that Russian top officials are implicated (including Shoygu and Surkov). Now there is the final step to make: to own up to the fact that NO Russian official involved in the war in Donbas could take important decisions that were not approved by Putin.
https://www.politie.nl/themas/flight...rash-mh17.html

[Gilrandir]

On how civil the war in Ukraine was/is.
https://112.international/conflict-i...014-47203.html

[Gilrandir]

A good summary of what Zelensky has (not) achieved in relations with Russia for a year of his presidency.
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blog...seYHeuJEkc4eKY