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    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default An argument for God

    I was looking into some of the cosmological arguments for a creator, and after doing some thinking I thought I had come up with a case to show how these arguments not only make the case for a creator, but more specifically for the Abrahamic concept of God. However after doing more reading, I realized that people had already followed this same logic and presented it in the form of the Kalam cosmological argument. I'll present this argument below, but I'll describe it the way I imagined it and not the way it has been popularized by figures like William Lane Craig (however the first 3 points I copy from the standard cosmological argument where I started out from):

    1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
    2. The universe began to exist.
    3. Therefore the universe has a cause.
    4. Therefore the existence of the universe necessitates the existence of a self-existent creator who created the universe.*
    5. Since time, space and all natural laws are properties of the universe, this creator must transcend these properties and any temporal limitations.
    6. In relation to the universe, this creator must therefore be timeless, formless, all-present and all-powerful.
    7. Such a figure would therefore be said to be omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and immaterial.
    8. This is the Abrahamic concept of God.

    I maybe haven't quite followed the protocol for setting out philosophical arguments, but I'm just a layman trying to express my thoughts. I guess by extending the cosmological argument like this, the hope is to shut down arguments by atheists about how this creator could be the Flying Spaghetti Monster or other silly things. The idea is to deduce the qualities of God in relation to the universe by virtue of the nature of their relationship.

    Thoughts?

    * Although it could be said that a universe might be created by an existing universe which was not self-existent, ultimately we will have to get back to who created the first universe.
    Last edited by Rhyfelwyr; 11-23-2014 at 16:57.
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