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  1. #22
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: An argument for God

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    Well I disagree with each of these points.

    1. "If he ever began to exist, he must have a cause." - Immediately your argument falls flat, as point 4 in my OP makes it clear that the creator did not begin to exist.
    2. "If he never began to exist, he does not exist." - Nonsense, as the very concepts of time, order and beginning only exist within the material universe, which the creator by nature transcends.
    3. "If he does not need to have a cause, then neither does the universe need to have a cause". - Did you even read point 1 of my argument?
    You cannot prove point 1 with point 4 and point 4 with point 1 if both of these depend on eachother and both contain a statement that hinges on the respective other statement being true. That amounts to circular reasoning.

    You seem to be saying that everything inside our universe needs a cause, but the creator is outside and therefore does not need to have a cause. But none of that explains why the universe itself needs to have a cause, maybe the universe is self-existent and only changes its form now and then as others have said, it could also be a sub- universe of a universe that is timeless and has other rules. Might want to call that other universe god or creator, but that still wouldn't make it intelligent. In fact, if our universe has such distinct and different rules, how can you apply the concept of intelligence, which only works and was borne inside our universe, to something outside our universe?


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