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Thread: Attila TW Previews

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    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Attila TW Previews

    Last edited by edyzmedieval; 01-05-2015 at 21:30.
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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    The menu screen is really exciting, reminds me of the original RTW!
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    Infinite Jest Member easytarget's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    Even though I've stated repeatedly I will not pre-order this, I would in fact pre-order it if there was a bullet point anywhere in all the above information that said they addressed agent spam. There isn't as far as I know, since that would require CA admitting there's a problem, something they've failed to do for the last year as the topic rears its head every single week in the forum. But I am serious, if I knew for a fact that was fixed (seriously how freakin hard is it to set an agent limit on the AI anyway?!) I'd pre-order it right now.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    Some great videos. I noticed that WarriorOfSparta and DiplexHeated fought basically the same battle (which makes sense; an early obvious attack for the Saxons). Same settlement, and very similar army compositions on both sides. Interestingly, Diplex' battle looked as if it was not going nearly as well while in progress, but he wound up losing fewer troops. Pretty cool to watch two different players' styles given a nearly identical situation.

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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by easytarget View Post
    Even though I've stated repeatedly I will not pre-order this, I would in fact pre-order it if there was a bullet point anywhere in all the above information that said they addressed agent spam. There isn't as far as I know, since that would require CA admitting there's a problem, something they've failed to do for the last year as the topic rears its head every single week in the forum. But I am serious, if I knew for a fact that was fixed (seriously how freakin hard is it to set an agent limit on the AI anyway?!) I'd pre-order it right now.
    I recall them saying in a dev blog that agents wont start out with all their abilities unlocked so that might help. Maybe. Only time will tell.
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    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Bramborough View Post
    Some great videos. I noticed that WarriorOfSparta and DiplexHeated fought basically the same battle (which makes sense; an early obvious attack for the Saxons). Same settlement, and very similar army compositions on both sides. Interestingly, Diplex' battle looked as if it was not going nearly as well while in progress, but he wound up losing fewer troops. Pretty cool to watch two different players' styles given a nearly identical situation.
    Isn't there actually an agent limit on the AI just as you have? Because in my latest Macedon campaign, Parthia expanded to a fully fledged Empire, but they never had more than 2-3 spies aimed against me. (they fought me and my allies on the same front)
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    Infinite Jest Member easytarget's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    Technically there's a limit based on imperium (supposedly), I know at least that limit is shown in the player screen, whether it applies to the AI I don't know. I've yet to see it prevent a wave of agents coming at me. I've seen it in the GC, seen it in all the DLCs, in fact I'm dealing with it currently in the WOS campaign.

    And as always I flip them and end up with way more agents than my imperium should allow.

    I really honestly don't understand why this was so easy for them to do properly in S2 and not only impossible to do in R2 but impossible for them to even wrap their brains around the idea it's broken based on repeated player descriptions in the forum (featuring screenshots showing a bunch of player and AI agents standing around a settlement).

    Sigh, I'll wait and watch.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    I have mixed feelings about agents. My own experience is similar to easytarget's: they're a royal pain for a while, but doesn't take too long before I convert most of them and have a huge agent force of my own. Then I just agent-spam the AI right back. And frankly it's kinda fun, in a "mini-game" sort of way. So as far as that goes, the agent play doesn't bother me that much.

    The problem, which I know frustrates many, is that the agent game is out-of-whack proportionally...it's not really a "mini-game" at all. The agents are simply too powerful (at least, the spies and champs are). Instead of agents offering occasional support to one's armies, it often feels like the armies are supporting the agents (who win the real victories). The most blatant example is a high-level spy with 2 or 3 points in the poison skill...a couple of hits from one of these transforms a robust 20-unit "doom stack" into a phantom force of skeletons to be mopped up.

    Even more pervasive is the fact that one often needs an agent to force battles to happen at all. Nothing more aggravating than some mangy pack of 10%-strength levy-level cannon fodder...who happen to have gotten loose behind the lines and are now raiding in home provinces. Of course they run any time you manage to catch them...and of course they always manage to skip just out of attack range. So you need the agent to immobilize or slow them for a turn so you can steal a march on them. I guess there's a certain amount of realism to that, and maybe not a bad representation of guerrilla warfare. Annoying nevertheless.

    Last paragraph brings to mind something else that has been irritating me recently. Has there been some sort of zone-of-control change in R2 recently, perhaps with EE or some other late patch? Quite a few times recently, I finally herd a enemy force into a mountain pass or some other terrain cul-de-sac using multiple armies, and they have no apparent way out. Then I attack with one army, and the enemy completely ignores zone-of-control and retreats right past my blocking army, getting out free and clear again. I don't remember this happening last year (maybe it did, I just don't remember).

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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    Heres a mixed review of Attila, from the ever reputable DarrenTotalWar:



    Even with the foreseen problems Im still glad I pre-ordered it, but I will probably not start a campaign for a couple months after release because a)patching b)mods and c)I still need to finish my Marcomanni campaign/AAR which I have been rather lazy to play as of late as other games are grabbing my attention for now.
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    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    Darren is a nice reviewer, a worthy replacement of Daily, very neutral, even his tone of speech is neutral, and although I sometimes find him a bit boring, he's much better than Joe and his tantrums.

    However, Attila is old news, really, Total War: Warhammer is announced, here and there.
    Warhammer has quite a strict universe, so don't think that the Creative Assembly will not be forced to make it "accurate".

  11. #11

    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    Good review from Darren. Despite his title, Darren's take on Attila is (mildly) positive and confirms my own impression gleaned from other reviews. I think it will be a fine game for those with realistic expectations of what it is (and isn't).

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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    They also did a Q&A today during the live stream. Some points I remember are that the Huns are playable but they can't settle. So they are permanently in horde mode.
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    Infinite Jest Member easytarget's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    Then they must have very different victory conditions set for them.

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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    Yeah, I remember them saying they have to sack/raze X amount of settlements or something like that.
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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    They have released the complete campaign map:




    And maybe its just me but I kinda figured that the Huns would start a bit more east than they do now.
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    I would think the same. That Hun start point looks somewhat too westerly.

    Note the name form changes on many of the factions, with "-ians" replacing "-ii". I guess there must be a logical linguistic rationale for that, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to know what it is. Maybe because we have fewer historical primary sources for the period, and those few are from the Eastern empire (i.e., "Byzantine") and in Greek rather than Latin? Just a total shot in the dark....maybe it's nothing more than just another facet of CA trying to make Attila seem as different as possible relative to R2.

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    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Bramborough View Post
    Note the name form changes on many of the factions, with "-ians" replacing "-ii". I guess there must be a logical linguistic rationale for that, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to know what it is. Maybe because we have fewer historical primary sources for the period, and those few are from the Eastern empire (i.e., "Byzantine") and in Greek rather than Latin?
    Not really. Take for example, the Roxolanians, both in Rome II and in BI, they were called Roxolanii. CA probably considers her audience to thick to understand the Latin names.

    Also, the existence of the historically non-existent persian satrapies, just like the existence of the imaginary states of Cyprus, Arachosia, Parthava and so on, is a definitive proof that CA is incapable of balancing the large factions, like she did in BI or ETW.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    any idea of when reviews will be out? would be nice to have them before release day...... previews are nice but.......

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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    If I had to guess probably not until the week or so before release. Very few games have reviews posted almost a month before release date.
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    REX POLONIAE Moderator KLAssurbanipal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews


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    Dux Nova Scotia Member lars573's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Bramborough View Post
    I would think the same. That Hun start point looks somewhat too westerly.

    Note the name form changes on many of the factions, with "-ians" replacing "-ii". I guess there must be a logical linguistic rationale for that, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to know what it is. Maybe because we have fewer historical primary sources for the period, and those few are from the Eastern empire (i.e., "Byzantine") and in Greek rather than Latin? Just a total shot in the dark....maybe it's nothing more than just another facet of CA trying to make Attila seem as different as possible relative to R2.
    My understanting is thus:

    "ii" refers to a tribe or ethnic group
    "ia" refers to the nations/kingdoms above might build
    "ian" is a citizen/subject person from said nation/kingdom.

    So taking one from that map, Quadians.

    Quadii is the tribe, Quadia is the lands they rule, Quadian is someone from Quaida (with no regards to them being an ethnic Quadii or not)
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    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    From that campaign map, it looks like the Eastern Romans are really in for a war right from the first turn, given that the Ostrogoths are at the border, Visigoths are already in it and the Sassanids are waiting for an opportunity.
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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    I meant to post this yesterday when the announcement was made but I was a tad busy. Anyways CA is releasing something called Chronicles to, well, chronicle your campaign as you go along. Seems like a pretty cool feature! Maybe we will see more AARs in the future.

    http://youtu.be/V897ZAdYFfg
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    Yeah, saw that, it does look pretty cool. Initially I thought it might make AARs rather superfluous, but on reflection perhaps not. To my mind, AAR threads are a creative storytelling exercise, for which a campaign provides the plot outline and some visual illustration. The "nuts and bolts" of the actual game campaign are somewhat secondary. I rather doubt that the Chronicles feature will quite serve to replace AARs, although could be quite useful to augment/amplify.

    I think it will be a GREAT tool for documenting and following the action in a succession game!

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    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    On the whole, having more AARs would be really good.

    It depends how well they're going to implement it, because the idea has potential. Many times I wanted to keep "memories" of my campaigns, because some of them were memorable.
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  27. #27
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    So here is an example of one which CA posted:

    http://chronicles.totalwar.com/CA_Pete/chapter/179
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  28. #28

    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    So here is an example of one which CA posted:

    http://chronicles.totalwar.com/CA_Pete/chapter/179
    I think they did a nice job with this. I particularly like the bit where the player can insert comments, providing a personalized narrative.

    I find my previous opinion reinforced...this will be a great way to augment (not replace) an AAR thread, or just provide a tool to follow along in the campaign of someone who otherwise isn't doing an AAR.

  29. #29
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    Also I should mention that the review embargo ends on the 12th so we should be seeing reviews then.
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  30. #30
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attila TW Previews

    Also if you pre-ordered it from Steam you should be able to pre-load it as of this post.
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