France Shoot-Out

[Brenus]

Difficult to judge as they don't show the cartoon.
I just went on French sites and saw them. As usual, not my cup of tea, but really, sacrilege?
However, the charge of sacrilege doesn't exist yet in France.
Then, the ancestor of Charlie mocked the death of the French President and WW2 heroe Charles de Gaulle.

And they don't make fun. The cartoon just highlights the fact that this is an attack following Russian attack on Jihadists.
As the drawing of the drowned kid was highlighting the fact that less than 2 weeks after his death nobody cared anymore, with Hungary re-creating a Berlin wall, without not any real outcry of indignation of the "free" world.

[Gilrandir]

And they don't make fun. The cartoon just highlights the fact that this is an attack following Russian attack on Jihadists.
As the drawing of the drowned kid was highlighting the fact that less than 2 weeks after his death nobody cared anymore, with Hungary re-creating a Berlin wall, without not any real outcry of indignation of the "free" world.

A cartoon's purpose is always derision/mocking. I'm the last person here to defend Russia in any situation, yet it seems to me that the death of people is not the means to sharpen one's skills in being witty and sarcastic. Why didn't they do that when their staff died?

[Greyblades]

Russia is thin skinned; who'da thunk it?

As the drawing of the drowned kid was highlighting the fact that less than 2 weeks after his death nobody cared anymore, with Hungary re-creating a Berlin wall, without not any real outcry of indignation of the "free" world.

Why would there be indignation when the comparison to the berlin wall is pathetic?

[Brenus]

"A cartoon's purpose is always derision/mocking." NOT in French culture. Charlie is as others of this kind highly political. Cartoon is a misleading word. In French, caricatures is not a "bande dessinée" as "Asterix" or "Lucky Luke" are. For Le Canard Enchainé, Charlie and others, a small drawing is better than 1000 words.
As by Daumier:
http://expositions.bnf.fr/daumier/images/3/018.jpg
http://expositions.bnf.fr/daumier/images/3/023_1.jpg

"Why didn't they do that when their staff died?" They did. Stop assuming....
http://media.koreus.com/201501/homma...ie-hebdo-5.jpg
http://media.koreus.com/201501/homma...e-hebdo-20.jpg
http://media.koreus.com/201501/homma...e-hebdo-23.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6w9TFsIQAAiTee.jpg

I can't find the one with the graves and one saying:" Happy New Year, and and good health (the usual sentence in France for new year)", and the other one saying "The cons!!!!!..." (which is milder in French than in English).

"Why would there be indignation when the comparison to the berlin wall is pathetic?" Really? Barbed wires, walls and even armed force at the checked points? But, all right, your opinion.
Magino Line will do (or perhaps not enough bunkers and artillery for your taste), as it is to stop "invaders" to come in.
And you should read the Media just during at least 5 days after the publishing of the picture, it was really a truly and heart-breaking indignation, at least ONE week...

[Greyblades]

"Why would there be indignation when the comparison to the berlin wall is pathetic?" Really? Barbed wires, walls and even armed force at the checked points? But, all right, your opinion.
Magino Line will do (or perhaps not enough bunkers and artillery for your taste), as it is to stop "invaders" to come in.

Actually the only unique feature of the Berlin wall compared to other security borders, aside from the landmines, was the intent of keeping people in as well as out.

And you should read the Media just during at least 5 days after the publishing of the picture, it was really a truly and heart-breaking indignation, at least ONE week...

Heart breaking? You have a fragile heart.

[Fragony]

"A cartoon's purpose is always derision/mocking." NOT in French culture. Charlie is as others of this kind highly political. Cartoon is a misleading word. In French, caricatures is not a "bande dessinée" as "Asterix" or "Lucky Luke" are. For Le Canard Enchainé, Charlie and others, a small drawing is better than 1000 words.
As by Daumier:
http://expositions.bnf.fr/daumier/images/3/018.jpg
http://expositions.bnf.fr/daumier/images/3/023_1.jpg

"Why didn't they do that when their staff died?" They did. Stop assuming....
http://media.koreus.com/201501/homma...ie-hebdo-5.jpg
http://media.koreus.com/201501/homma...e-hebdo-20.jpg
http://media.koreus.com/201501/homma...e-hebdo-23.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6w9TFsIQAAiTee.jpg

I can't find the one with the graves and one saying:" Happy New Year, and and good health (the usual sentence in France for new year)", and the other one saying "The cons!!!!!..." (which is milder in French than in English).

"Why would there be indignation when the comparison to the berlin wall is pathetic?" Really? Barbed wires, walls and even armed force at the checked points? But, all right, your opinion.
Magino Line will do (or perhaps not enough bunkers and artillery for your taste), as it is to stop "invaders" to come in.
And you should read the Media just during at least 5 days after the publishing of the picture, it was really a truly and heart-breaking indignation, at least ONE week...

Pretty sure you will apreciate this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvOS9vsccJs

[Brenus]

"Heart breaking? You have a fragile heart." Yeap. Nothing I can do about it, when I see dead children, even foreigners.

[Greyblades]

Dead children? We're talking about hungary's fence not that washed up corpse they found a month or two back.
A fence shouldnt elicit heartbreak in any situation.


As for the kid, you've had access to 100-150 years worth of photographic history your entire life, you'd have to be pretty sheltered to still be so emotionally affected by a picture of a dead body by the time you reach adulthood.

[Brenus]

"We're talking about hungary's fence not that washed up corpse they found a month or two back" Nope. That what I wrote: "As the drawing of the drowned kid was highlighting the fact that less than 2 weeks after his death nobody cared anymore, with Hungary re-creating a Berlin wall, without not any real outcry of indignation of the "free" world." I clearly linked the so call indignation of less than 1 week and the lack of reaction towards the building of a fence designed to stop a successful boy to take shelter in Europe.
If the young boy would have succeed to land in Europe, he would have been blocked at the borders...

You want to separate the two topics for understandable reason, but no: It is the same event, and yes, Europe doesn't give a damn of children drowning in the see, or suffering on the road to exile, and the Hungarians were just a little bit earlier than the others.
Now, you might prefer to see Hungarians Border Police Officer pushing back desperate, hungry, sick and crying children, you might think it is a human way to treat other humans, I don't. Don't look when they will be in the snows of Serbia, Bosnia and other outside Europe countries if it makes you feel better. The things you ignore can't hurt you, are they?

And no, I am not sheltered to human suffering, and I hope I will never be. No saying I always do something about it, but I did.
I did when I join the army to protect the ones who can't, I did when I went for Charities, in wars and Vaccination Campaigns.
Yes, I am aware that it is hardly enough.
And I hope you are not able to watch people dying (or dead) without even a pinch.

[Greyblades]

Correction: i'm only talking about the hungarian fence. I'm not sure what you are talking about but its long lost relevance to what I'm saying.

[Husar]

As for the kid, you've had access to 100-150 years worth of photographic history your entire life, you'd have to be pretty sheltered to still be so emotionally affected by a picture of a dead body by the time you reach adulthood.

For someone who is so emotionally affected by the "war on men", it is quite strange to say that actually dead people do not bother you. And it seems quite cold in general, not something I would advertise about myself. Most parents and other normal people are always affected by pictures or even stories of dead children, there is nothing wrong with that even if they were not sheltered.

[CrossLOPER]

For someone who is so emotionally affected by the "war on men", it is quite strange to say that actually dead people do not bother you. And it seems quite cold in general, not something I would advertise about myself. Most parents and other normal people are always affected by pictures or even stories of dead children, there is nothing wrong with that even if they were not sheltered.

This is the internet. Epeen is measured by edginess.

[AE Bravo]

As for the kid, you've had access to 100-150 years worth of photographic history your entire life, you'd have to be pretty sheltered to still be so emotionally affected by a picture of a dead body by the time you reach adulthood.

You'd have to be pretty sheltered to NOT still be affected by a pic of a dead body, especially a kid.

[Greyblades]

For someone who is so emotionally affected by the "war on men", it is quite strange to say that actually dead people do not bother you. And it seems quite cold in general, not something I would advertise about myself. Most parents and other normal people are always affected by pictures or even stories of dead children, there is nothing wrong with that even if they were not sheltered.

War on men?

I stopped being moved by the idea of dying children when the oxfam/cafod brigades showed up yearly in my primary school's assembly, started snapping thier fingers and saying "every three seconds a child dies of hunger", turned the death of those I dont know from a tragedy to a statistic. Not that it needed help as the sheer scale of the world makes getting worked up over every death becomes both unhealthy and pointless.
Pictures stopped bothering be somewhere between the holocaust and vietnam photos.

I'm sure seeing it in person would disturb me, I am told you can never be prepared for the smell of death, but stories and pictures of death in far off lands do not generally illicit a reaction beyond "this again?"

You'd have to be pretty sheltered to NOT still be affected by a pic of a dead body, especially a kid.

...No... you cant be desensitised by a lack of awareness

[AE Bravo]

All I'm saying is that if you don't shake your head at the image of a pile of dead corpses or think "****ing hell" to yourself, there might be some issues there.

[Brenus]

"I'm not sure what you are talking about but its long lost relevance to what I'm saying." You put yourself in this position dear. I was explaining how "cartoons" work in French media (taking example of the one of the drowned kid published by Charlie to illustrate how tragedy are so easily forgotten in our modern time) then you jump on your "Why would there be indignation" about the building of a fence, very similar to a modernised Berlin Wall.
Then you try the "Heart breaking? You have a fragile heart", obviously NOT speaking of the Hungarian fence, as you added "As for the kid, you've had access to 100-150 years worth of photographic history your entire life".
So, perhaps you are not sure of what I was talking about, but that is your problem to read the subject before to answer it, as all good teachers would tell you, I am quite pretty sure of what you are talking about.

[Fragony]

The washed up kid is kinda ironic in hindsight, his father was a human-traficker that always took him to comfort his clients

[Gilrandir]

"Why didn't they do that when their staff died?" They did. Stop assuming....
http://media.koreus.com/201501/homma...ie-hebdo-5.jpg
http://media.koreus.com/201501/homma...e-hebdo-20.jpg
http://media.koreus.com/201501/homma...e-hebdo-23.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6w9TFsIQAAiTee.jpg

I can't find the one with the graves and one saying:" Happy New Year, and and good health (the usual sentence in France for new year)", and the other one saying "The cons!!!!!..." (which is milder in French than in English).

Then I was wrong. Yet in my culture the reaction would be something like the one Russia expressed. Some topics are considered not a subject to satirize about/make fun/mock.

By the way, you went LOL when I mentioned that Russia would have to address the challenge of terrorism once it emroiled into the Syrian conflict and now it is very likely that the Sinai plane was downed by ISIS. Still LOLLing?

[Greyblades]

...*sigh* Brenus' lack of english language skills strikes again!

with Hungary re-creating a Berlin wall, without not any real outcry of indignation of the "free" world.

I thought you were wondering why people werent indignant over hungary creating a wall. I pointed out that the comparison is pathetic.

When you said this:

And you should read the Media just during at least 5 days after the publishing of the picture, it was really a truly and heart-breaking indignation, at least ONE week...

I thought you were still talking about the wall and by the picture you meant one of these:

I was under the impression you were being an overdramatic wuss acting like the hungarian wall was the moral equivilent of the berlin wall.
Hence: you have a fragile heart.

As for the rest, I'm sorry if learning about a fresh new massacre week after week for ten years has made it so I dont have to cry in a corner whenever I view a fairly tame picture like the washed up syrian boy..

[Fragony]

[QUOTE=Gilrandir;2053669164]Then I was wrong. Yet in my culture the reaction would be something like the one Russia expressed. Some topics are considered not a subject to satirize about/make fun/mock


So what deal with it

[Husar]

...*sigh* Brenus' lack of english language skills strikes again!

I thought you were wondering why people weren't indignant over Hungary creating a wall. I pointed out that the comparison is pathetic.

When you said this:

I thought you were still talking about the wall and by the picture you meant one of these:
I was under the impression you were being an overdramatic wuss acting like the Hungarian wall was the moral equivalent of the Berlin wall.
Hence: you have a fragile heart.

As for the rest, I'm sorry if learning about a fresh new massacre week after week for ten years has made it so I don't have to cry in a corner whenever I view a fairly tame picture like the washed up Syrian boy..

Glass houses...
And no, I don't feel like commenting on the topic, cry me a river. I'm way too badass for all of you.

[Greyblades]

His use of tense is confusing. Bite me.

[Strike For The South]

All I'm saying is that if you don't shake your head at the image of a pile of dead corpses or think "****ing hell" to yourself, there might be some issues there.

And here is the emotional blackmail encapsulated.

Thank you for being so transparent.

[Gilrandir]

...*sigh* Brenus' lack of english language skills strikes again!

I thought you were wondering why people werent indignant over hungary creating a wall. I pointed out that the comparison is pathetic.

When you said this:

I thought you were still talking about the wall and by the picture you meant one of these:

I was under the impression you were being an overdramatic wuss acting like the hungarian wall was the moral equivilent of the berlin wall.
Hence: you have a fragile heart.

Let me quote Brenus:

Stop assuming....

You will end up wrong anyway.

[Greyblades]

You will end up wrong anyway.

I suppose you are the one to know what with your uniquely extensive experience in the field of pointless arguments.

[AE Bravo]

And here is the emotional blackmail encapsulated.

Thank you for being so transparent.

I don't think you know what that means.

Here is the buzzkill encapsulated. "Get off my lawn."

[Brenus]

"Still LOLLing?" Yes. Like if Russia wasn't confronted long before to Muslim terrorism!

"*sigh* Brenus' lack of english language skills strikes again!" Ahhh, the good sound of English racism, "you don't even speak English" bits, forgetting they don't. Well, I think someone else answer to this... By the way, English...

[Gilrandir]

I suppose you are the one to know what with your uniquely extensive experience in the field of pointless arguments.

Pointless? No! Futile? Yes!

"Still LOLLing?" Yes. Like if Russia wasn't confronted long before to Muslim terrorism!

Yet it is the first time that Russia suffered not from nameless terrorists (mostly of Chechen origin). Now the terrorists have a name on them - ISIS. And the more suffering is yet to come.

[Fragony]

Do you honesty think ISIS is a threat to Russia, declaring a state is probably the dumbest thing they could have done, there are going to be a lot of tears when Russia takes of it's silk gloves

[Brenus]

"Yet it is the first time that Russia suffered not from nameless terrorists (mostly of Chechen origin). Now the terrorists have a name on them - ISIS. And the more suffering is yet to come." I think ISIS gave the perfect opportunity for Putin to come back into Egypt, by the back door. In the mean time, the Syrian recapture one strategic point, if we have to believe news from Russia, which I tend to in this situation as US and EU would be so happy to show if it was a lie.
Point is Russia didn't suffer. Russian did. ISIS can't attack Russia and now, as Fragony pointed out, are probably waiting for incoming retaliations.
As more to come, perhaps, but France was attacked by Muslim terrorists. And they are only really one example of a successful terrorist succeeding his political aim: Gavrilo PRINCIP, and it took all the great willingness of the Central Empires to help him.
ISIS is destined to the bin of History, as soon as great powers will decide the play time is finish.