Re: What to do with the returnees?
Most have two nationalities, take of one. Perfectly possible by international law. Maroco and Algeria aren'f very kind to extremists so they will just dissapear after the plane landed. It isn't all that hard.Originally Posted by Ice
As the himself muslim mayor of Rotterdam gently puts is, just go, get the fuck out of here, and never come back.
Last edited by Fragony; 01-29-2015 at 05:29.
Re: What to do with the returnees?
There is a popular entertainment in maritime cities of Ukraine: along the beach one can see strolling people having different exotic animals and birds on a tether: monkeys, donkeys, parrots, eagles, peacocks, snakes and the like. Holiday makers can have pictures taken holding those animals. Yet it doesn't mean they have hunted them or are likely to eat them. Perhaps similar cases are those with severed heads.
Not necessary to do that - just introduce a law forbidding double citizenship (as in Ukraine) and make them choose only one.
Re: What to do with the returnees?
I am perfectly happy with double nationalities, if they have only one you can't denaturalise them. As long as they have two we can just put them on the plane, and don't allow entry if they want to come back. It's all so simple but the political will to make sense is lacking.
Last edited by Fragony; 01-29-2015 at 10:37.
Re: What to do with the returnees?
Double nationalities is relatively easy - they should loose their (usually) Western one when they decide to prance off to the 1500's.
Those without - a lot harder. Part of me thinks that the point of the MI6 etc is to collate evidence and ensure that they don't come back. Just quietly killed in battle rather than monitor them across the whole of Europe to then have to spend money on due process. We're not talking about collaborators in an occupied country where people play lip service for safety, they've spent a lot of effort to get to Paradise and I say we help 'em.
Otherwise, there's nothing we can really do. There will never be the evidence required to try them (as has been pointed out, circumstantial isn't hard evidence) and so we can flap about worrying about the few that do decide to become sleepers and spend loads of money integrating the others.
All we ask in the West is that you join in with the culture we have and most places in Europe have a very broad definition of what this is and practically all cultures and religions manage to do so - bar a very small minority of Muslims. I don't say what we do is right / the best but it is what we do and is our norms. Rather than continue to spend resources on those who clearly don't want to be, get rid of this few and spend the time integrating everyone else.
An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
"If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill
Re: What to do with the returnees?
Of course there is something we can do, if we can't expell them we can still kill them without anyone noticing, probably already happens, there is a drugs-war between Marrocan gangs and liquidations between them occur almost every week.Nobody is going to ask any questionsas there are too many cases, and nobody cares anyway. Smokescreen ftw
Last edited by Fragony; 01-29-2015 at 12:40.
Re: What to do with the returnees?
Recognise the Islamic State. Anyone who goes there is assumed to become a citizen of said state. Remove the western citizenship of anyone who goes there. Anyone who has any kind of sympathy for that state has next to nothing in common with the vast majority of us.Double nationalities is relatively easy - they should loose their (usually) Western one when they decide to prance off to the 1500's.
Those without - a lot harder. Part of me thinks that the point of the MI6 etc is to collate evidence and ensure that they don't come back. Just quietly killed in battle rather than monitor them across the whole of Europe to then have to spend money on due process. We're not talking about collaborators in an occupied country where people play lip service for safety, they've spent a lot of effort to get to Paradise and I say we help 'em.
Otherwise, there's nothing we can really do. There will never be the evidence required to try them (as has been pointed out, circumstantial isn't hard evidence) and so we can flap about worrying about the few that do decide to become sleepers and spend loads of money integrating the others.
All we ask in the West is that you join in with the culture we have and most places in Europe have a very broad definition of what this is and practically all cultures and religions manage to do so - bar a very small minority of Muslims. I don't say what we do is right / the best but it is what we do and is our norms. Rather than continue to spend resources on those who clearly don't want to be, get rid of this few and spend the time integrating everyone else.
Re: What to do with the returnees?
What if they go there to pick up family members who wish to leave it? What if they go there to collect the remains of their property however insignificant those may seem to the government of your countries? What if they go there to pay ransom for someone?
Re: What to do with the returnees?
I can see the attraction of letting IS/Daesh exist to function as some sort of sinkhole that will attract people who don't want western society and who can therefore be missed like a sore tooth. Kind of like the world's toilet.
The problem is: "we" are never going to recognise Daesh as a sovereign entity for fairly obvious reasons. They claim territory from states that we do recognise and they're sure as hell never going to treat other states as peers, which is kind of a prerequisite for diplomatic recognition of any kind. This, and the fact that they're a bunch of murderous savages and all that.
I don't really see much value in stripping citizenship as a criminal punishment, anyway.
Re: What to do with the returnees?
I don't see stripping citizenship as a punishment. I see it as a measure of protection from them, so they can never legally return here. If they sympathise with that lot, they will never have much in common with me, and will more than likely be a threat (the 7/7 bombings and the attempted bombing a few weeks later were in areas I frequent, just not on that particular day). I'm not going to interfere with their life over there, and I don't want them to interfere with my life over here.
As for claiming territory from sovereign states, they began life after we interfered in the likes of Iraq and latterly Syria, removing the dictators who were keeping their like in check. Saddam's gone, but Assad's still around, and it's not like any western government will be weeping if he complains about IS being recognised on his turf. Recognise them both, and let them duke it out for supremacy without involving us. Anyone who takes part will be fighting on behalf of one side or another whom we don't support. Whichever side they join, we'll be well rid of them.
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