Tips to save the West

[JeromeBaker]

I lost my first WRE campaign and just started another. I am playing on only normal right now.

1. Which matters the most for diplomacy, your income or your treasury? I feel like I am noticing a negative effect when my income is lower and/or negative, is this real? Can you counter this with a lot of $ in your treasury?

2. I am having an issue with my client states when I start a war. I am not selecting the option to call my allies to war, but the game automatically asks your client states to participate. I just started a war in Africa, and half of my client kingdoms refused (even though I didnt ask) and immediatly went back to being at war with me. I feel like I need the income from civilizations I subjugate, but not if I cannot start a war without most of them turning on me. When you guys are fighting wars, are you more interested in razing your enemies territories to create a buffer zone or are you subjugating them to help with your economy? If you plan to subjugate should you quickly try to help them financially to build back up so you can increase positive feelings or are you simply helping them get back on their feet quicker so they can raise a new stack of troops to eventually attack you again?

3. How can you increase the amount of pre-battle baracades in seige battles? Right now I only get 1 and I am not sure how to get more. On normal even though the enemy can break through one relatively quickly, they dont seem interested in trying. This has helped a lot for my defense.

4. What moves your level of Imperium the fastest (I think I used the correct term here, basically I need to create more governers to help my most profitable regions)? (i.e. winning battles, subjugating, taking new territories, razing areas, ect...) which of these will help you grow your Imperium level the fastest?

5. Are you guys raising crops, sheep, or cattle based on which is the most fertile or based on which is best for the economy? It appears that the sheep option will help out the most financially.

I realize some of these are not just WRE questions so this might not be the correct thread, but I am specifically asking these for a WRE campaign.....

Thanks

[Bramborough]

I lost my first WRE campaign and just started another. I am playing on only normal right now.

1. Which matters the most for diplomacy, your income or your treasury? I feel like I am noticing a negative effect when my income is lower and/or negative, is this real? Can you counter this with a lot of $ in your treasury?

2. I am having an issue with my client states when I start a war. I am not selecting the option to call my allies to war, but the game automatically asks your client states to participate. I just started a war in Africa, and half of my client kingdoms refused (even though I didnt ask) and immediatly went back to being at war with me. I feel like I need the income from civilizations I subjugate, but not if I cannot start a war without most of them turning on me. When you guys are fighting wars, are you more interested in razing your enemies territories to create a buffer zone or are you subjugating them to help with your economy? If you plan to subjugate should you quickly try to help them financially to build back up so you can increase positive feelings or are you simply helping them get back on their feet quicker so they can raise a new stack of troops to eventually attack you again?

3. How can you increase the amount of pre-battle baracades in seige battles? Right now I only get 1 and I am not sure how to get more. On normal even though the enemy can break through one relatively quickly, they dont seem interested in trying. This has helped a lot for my defense.

4. What moves your level of Imperium the fastest (I think I used the correct term here, basically I need to create more governers to help my most profitable regions)? (i.e. winning battles, subjugating, taking new territories, razing areas, ect...) which of these will help you grow your Imperium level the fastest?

5. Are you guys raising crops, sheep, or cattle based on which is the most fertile or based on which is best for the economy? It appears that the sheep option will help out the most financially.

I realize some of these are not just WRE questions so this might not be the correct thread, but I am specifically asking these for a WRE campaign.....

Thanks

1. I'd like to know the answer to this as well.

2. Client states are maddening...and not just in Attila, but R2 as well. In my case, I've tried to subjugate Picts, Caledonians, and Ebdanians. Had the same experience you did; didn't particularly want them to join the war, but they refused anyway. At least 2 of the 3 stayed clients, but had to go back and exterminate the Picts (which obtw, apparently you cannot subjugate the same faction twice...at least not within some certain time span).

As far as I can tell, razing a region will not create much of an effective buffer; enemies are perfectly happy to cross the wasteland to get at you. And why wouldn't they be; no one owns it, there's really no penalty or obstacle to hinder them, other than it takes an extra turn or two to arrive in your borders.

3. There may be something deep in the tech tree, or possibly some obscure traits. I haven't run across such, however, in my Saxon campaign. I've never gotten more than 1 barricade in a Level I or II town; there may be more in a Level III/IV settlement (haven't had to defend one yet).

4. Taking new territories is the biggest factor. Also, unlike R2, completing certain research milestones (completing a research tier) also boosts Imperium; it's therefore possible to increase Imperium even during non-expansionary phases of your campaign. I don't know if adding military allies, client states, or desolating regions adds to Imperium; if such actions do so, I haven't noticed it. And I'm pretty sure that winning battles does not increase Imperium on its own (unless of course such a victory results in capturing a new region).

5. I haven't played WRE. Based on my Saxon experience, I've found that converting fields to goats makes sense (food-wise) in Meagre and Infertile regions. Looking at the Roman agricultural options, it appears that a similar relationship exists between wheat and sheep...but then, most of your territories are south of the Alps, and should therefore remain at Poor fertility or higher, at least through the first 3 climate drops. So probably better to just stay with wheat. That's strictly from a food-supply perspective, rather than income. My approach is to maximize food (and sanitation) from as few slots as possible, which will then allow food-consuming Public Order buildings, which in turn will allow the real money-makers in trade and industry.

[Paradigmatic]

2- You need to make your client states like you. Giving them gifts speeds the process up, though generally, their opinion of you will rise over time by itself. It all depends of how soon you think you'll be attacked or will need to go to war. Also check their character. Reliable puppet states, even when they don't like you, tend to stick to their agreements. Btw, when making a puppet, if their character is not in your favor, try to kill their king (or if it is, try to spare him). That basically means check to see if the leader might be favorable to you, and if he is, lure him out of the capital before taking it.

5- Crops all depend. Cattle are a mainstay for food when fertility decreases because most of the food from cattle comes from agriculture, not fertility. In the early game however, wheat, mostly based on fertility, will net the most food. Since having a food shortage in a particular region will drop your income by 25%, wheat might net more immediate taxes then sheep. Sheep however, are the best money making option once you're already making enough food in a region. For example, Africa makes a ton of food from the get go, so upgrading their fields to sheep pastures is usually the best option. Most of Italy, cattle or wheat, depending on how you plan on the long term.

[JeromeBaker]

1. Which matters the most for diplomacy, your income or your treasury? I feel like I am noticing a negative effect when my income is lower and/or negative, is this real? Can you counter this with a lot of $ in your treasury?

I am leaning towards your income being the major factor and not your treasury. I have noticed/perceived whenever my income goes negative, there is an increase in aggression from other factions. Last night I went negative with quite a bit in my treasury and the very next turn I was attacked by 3 different factions (2 of which were at the time friendly wandering hordes in my territory).

[Greyblades]

Hrm, you start out with about 7 small 6-10 unit stacks, have any of you tried emulating the diocletian methods of keeping them seperate and using the garrisons to compensate while defending the borders? I could see the skilled use of a garrison being able to deplete a horde enough for the small legions to destroy.

If you are lucky with the african tribe's disposition it might be possible to deal with the suebi with the iberian and african legions and leave the border legions in place.

If only there was a way to gift lands, say give the suebi pannonia in exchange for a pledge not to let the barbarians through.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

OK, here's a big tip - DO NOT - agree to join the ERE's wars unless they're defensive. Sure, they'll give you a little cash but you'll be at war with the Huns, and the Vandals, refuse and you can put them off, the longer you put them off the stronger you will become and the less likely they will be to attack.

[Greyblades]

In my first game game the vandals took over Urburzis and after I took it for myself to dislodge them (after they had betrayed me 1 turn after I had subjugated them) I ended up spending 5 turns chasing them around gaul, is there something special about hordes that make them move faster than my armies or something?

[Bramborough]

Hrm, you start out with about 7 small 6-10 unit stacks, have any of you tried emulating the diocletian methods of keeping them seperate and using the garrisons to compensate while defending the borders? I could see the skilled use of a garrison being able to deplete a horde enough for the small legions to destroy.

If you are lucky with the african tribe's disposition it might be possible to deal with the suebi with the iberian and african legions and leave the border legions in place.

If only there was a way to gift lands, say give the suebi pannonia in exchange for a pledge not to let the barbarians through.

There might be something worthwhile in that approach. I can't speak specifically for playing WRE, haven't done so yet. But in general, settlement garrisons seem a little stronger than in R2; I'm not seeing the "pleb" or "farmers" fodder units. Plus the minor settlements are much better fortified and defensible.

A couple of days ago as Saxons, got surprise-attacked in a Level II minor settlement by a 20-unit Burgundian horde stack. AR prediction was quite low; 20% or so. Decided to play it out just to wear down their army as much as I could for a next-turn counterattack. Pleasantly surprised that the garrison alone managed to beat them off and keep the town...and were still viable at the end, wasn't a Pyrrhic.

[Greyblades]

So I've been browsing the CA forums and I've gotten the gist that it's a waste of time to buy cohors and I should just stick with limitanei and comitatensis' until tier 2. Also that I should allways testudo, which is apparantly a different formation to the Rome 2 classical testudo

God I miss ballistae. Give me 2 units and some principes to hide behind wnd I could take over the world. Hell just let my onagers have more than 6 shots and I would be content.

[Paradigmatic]

Without testudo, your units are pin cushions for archers, javelinmen, slingers (well not pins really), etc. With testudo, all those missiles are like a light rain.

Personally, I find that limitanei, etc. don't kill as fast as the comitatensis do. I like to stack 1 unit of spears in front with 1 unit of swords right behind. Both testudo. The enemy breaks on the spears and when the limitanei tire or waver, i send the swords in.

I destroy all military buildings at start though, but recruit heavily from hordes and puppet states. Getting axemen to run around the enemy and charge them in the flanks or back really does the trick while your testudo'd spears hold the line.

Javelinmen (of all sorts) are also insanely powerful. Never let them fire from behind your guys - too much friendly fire and it will kill your morale. Have the javelinmen run around the enemy and take position behind them. They massacre all sorts of units, even generals, and will also kill morale.

[Greyblades]

Real pity garrisons dont get any, by god would I love to trade in the useless medium infantry for some javelins.

Have any of you guys had any sucess avoiding getting your garrisons outflanked in siege battles? My problem is that the only way to keep the capture point from being taken and ruining my morale is to cover 3 or more alleys and seing as only 2 of my 4 units can actually last any length of time the Ai usually just walks through my medium infantry and beats the crap out of my testudos.

Aparantly the last patch made the attacking testudo usless as it falls apart the second it's charged.

Edit: doesnt seem to be happening on my game, I do notice that it turns off when you tell them to atack but it holds when they are charged themselves.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

So I've been browsing the CA forums and I've gotten the gist that it's a waste of time to buy cohors and I should just stick with limitanei and comitatensis' until tier 2. Also that I should allways testudo, which is apparantly a different formation to the Rome 2 classical testudo

God I miss ballistae. Give me 2 units and some principes to hide behind wnd I could take over the world. Hell just let my onagers have more than 6 shots and I would be content.

I've found Cohors to be quite effective, actually, Legio even more so. While the spearmen are tough defensively they have limited killing power, and that means they take more casualties in the long run. Try this, staggered double axies with the spears at the front and the legion behind. The enemy will hit the spears who are good defensively and you can then strike each enemy unit in it's flank with cohors.

Also, it's easier to recruit those guys gradually and then retrain rather than waiting until you have the legio upgrade ready.