I should never have downloaded The Guardian app

[a completely inoffensive name]

Every day I open The Guardian on my phone and every day I see more and more opinions from Americans making absurd left wing statements that they know wouldn't fly if they were published in the United States.

See: Jessica Valenti

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...to-be-offended

Chait’s real problem, it seems, is that he doesn’t understand why his privilege – or anyone else’s – should impact how people perceive what he says. “Under p.c. culture, the same idea can be expressed identically by two people but received differently depending on the race and sex of the individuals doing the expressing,” he writes.Well, yes! Context matters, and it’s no secret that a man using a word like “cunt”, for example, often has a completely different resonance than when a woman uses it.

See when a man calls someone cunt, he is degrading someone else. When a woman calls someone a cunt she is...empowering herself at the expense of another!

Instead of rolling our eyes at the intensity of the feelings people have over these issues, we should be grateful that they care so much, because racism, misogyny and transphobia can and do kill people. If the price we all pay for progress for the less privileged is that someone who is more privileged gets their feelings hurt sometimes – or that they might have to think twice before opening their mouths or putting their fingers to keyboards – that’s a small damn price to pay. That’s not stopping free speech; it’s making our speech better.

Am I going crazy when I begin to understand what Fragony is saying about leftists?


Can someone explain to me how this idea came about that identity politics != racism/prejudice as long as you are of the right category.

[Husar]

Sometimes Fragony is absolutely correct, does that surprise you?
He just expresses himself in a way that other people don't rather often, which leads to misunderstandings.
And have you found any leftists who love islamic terrorists and want to import more of them to the West?

Also kinda reminds me of liveleak comments about "mudslimes" with pictures of bombers over the kaaba.

Either way, I also get disgusted when I see these leftist knucklehead rioters who call the police nazis and fascists and then throw stones at them. It's not exactly a message of peace and tolerance there.

Don't black people call eachother the N-Word but when a white guy does it he's a racist? Even for people who say your category shouldn't matter, it does often matter. Like how we shouldn't use animals as food but when animals use other animals as food, it's somehow okay because they are not as clever as we are. And I've never seen any animals speak out against this, they just stand on the sidelines while animal rights activists try to trample all over my rights to eat the animals standing on the sidelines.

[Montmorency]

See when a man calls someone cunt, he is degrading someone else. When a woman calls someone a cunt she is...empowering herself at the expense of another!

What?

Dude: polysemy.

I expect more credible complaints from you.

[Fisherking]

Honestly! Anyone else ever hear of the Natural Right to be free from Offence?

It is simply an attempt at controlling the liberties of others.

If you feel a strong need not to be offended, stay home. You do have a right to privacy…except from the government anyway.

[Beskar]

There are limitations on Freedom of Speech when it is used to cause harm to others maliciously. This is why you cannot run into airports shouting "bombombomb", or why threatening/harassing/bullying is disallowed.

It is why the 'right to bear arms' is not the right to shoot everyone. Similar principle.

[Fisherking]

Which is why I specifically used liberties, to imply that they must be exercised responsibly.

[a completely inoffensive name]

What?

Dude: polysemy.

I expect more credible complaints from you.

Cunt has no multiple meanings. It is solely derogatory. It is a bad example from the author and nevertheless there are symbols which have multiple meanings and yet western countries still shy away from having those symbols expressed, such as various Nazi symbols in Germany.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Sometimes Fragony is absolutely correct, does that surprise you?
He just expresses himself in a way that other people don't rather often, which leads to misunderstandings.
And have you found any leftists who love islamic terrorists and want to import more of them to the West?

Also kinda reminds me of liveleak comments about "mudslimes" with pictures of bombers over the kaaba.

Either way, I also get disgusted when I see these leftist knucklehead rioters who call the police nazis and fascists and then throw stones at them. It's not exactly a message of peace and tolerance there.

Don't black people call eachother the N-Word but when a white guy does it he's a racist? Even for people who say your category shouldn't matter, it does often matter. Like how we shouldn't use animals as food but when animals use other animals as food, it's somehow okay because they are not as clever as we are. And I've never seen any animals speak out against this, they just stand on the sidelines while animal rights activists try to trample all over my rights to eat the animals standing on the sidelines.

Honestly, I know Frag is right on some topics. However what I was getting at was his strong sentiment about leftists in general, it was not an insult at his views. Maybe I am spending too much time in university at this point, I used to bash right wingers a lot more when I lived in a conservative area. Years of college liberals have got me more and more annoyed at the left in general.

[Montmorency]

Cunt has no multiple meanings. It is solely derogatory.

That's the thing - what you say is just not the case.

Here's a simple example:

1. Your best friend says "Watch it, moron!" after you walk into him and almost push him down.

2. A strange man who has 6 inches on you says "Watch it, moron!" after you walk into him and almost push him down.

The notion that these are identical situations with identical meanings in the exchange is a complete delusion.

[Montmorency]

I'll break it down further: the idea that "meaning" is some discrete thing propelled into and snatched out of some 'semiotic ether' is yet more ridiculous humanist crap. Meaning is uniquely constructive and is actually so:

The signifier and the signified are two sides of the same coin and are expressed through the same medium, which is behavior.

Why? Because meaning is neurobiological, or it is not at all. Dictionaries or your personal statements do not encapsulate meaning.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I'll break it down further: the idea that "meaning" is some discrete thing propelled into and snatched out of some 'semiotic ether' is yet more ridiculous humanist crap. Meaning is uniquely constructive and is actually so:

The signifier and the signified are two sides of the same coin and are expressed through the same medium, which is behavior.

Why? Because meaning is neurobiological, or it is not at all. Dictionaries or your personal statements do not encapsulate meaning.

Well if meaning depends entirely on how you receive the message and not how the individual intends it, then judging a message based on their sex or on the color of someones skin is exactly the opposite of progress.

[Gilrandir]

Like how we shouldn't use animals as food but when animals use other animals as food, it's somehow okay because they are not as clever as we are. And I've never seen any animals speak out against this

Muppet show, anyone?

The signifier and the signified are two sides of the same coin and are expressed through the same medium, which is behavior.

The signified is not homogeneous either. It is like a layered cake: at the bottom is the significative element of meaning, common for all speakers, it is overlaid by the denotative element of meaning, unique for each speaker, and on top comes the connotative element of meaning which is related not to the signified, but to the speaker (the time and place in which he lived/lives, the social group he belongs to and, most importantly, his attitude to the signified). Having this in view, it is easy to explain different influence of the same word (or, to be precise, words with identical/similar meanings) on different people.

[a completely inoffensive name]

That's the thing - what you say is just not the case.

Here's a simple example:

1. Your best friend says "Watch it, moron!" after you walk into him and almost push him down.

2. A strange man who has 6 inches on you says "Watch it, moron!" after you walk into him and almost push him down.

The notion that these are identical situations with identical meanings in the exchange is a complete delusion.

That works with moron but not cunt. Obviously you have never watched Curb Your Enthusiasm.