Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 44

Thread: First they Came For The Racists

  1. #1
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Between Louis' sheets
    Posts
    10,369

    Default First they Came For The Racists

    Recently a group of young men affiliated with the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity drunkenly chanted nigger on a bus.

    Will someone explain to me how a public university can expel these students?
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  2. #2
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    8,406
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    How they can or how they won't?
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  3. #3
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Between Louis' sheets
    Posts
    10,369

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    They already have
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  4. #4
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    8,406
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    Huh... need caffeine.

    Because the university is a private organisation and with the right contract details not read can kick out anyone they want?
    Last edited by Greyblades; 03-10-2015 at 19:51.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Members thankful for this post (2):



  5. #5
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Between Louis' sheets
    Posts
    10,369

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    In what realm is the university of Oklahoma a private organization
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  6. #6
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Swampville
    Posts
    11,559

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    Well its not just that they were chanting a racist term, they were also chanting about lynching. Now they cant be prosecuted because of the 1st Amendment, but I wonder if theres a section on prohibiting hate speech in the university rules. One might even argue that the chanting was threatening since it was talking about lynching, so does the university have the right to kick out students who are seen as threatening other students?
    On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
    Visited:
    A man who casts no shadow has no soul.
    Hvil i fred HoreTore

  7. #7
    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    I live on the org, feeding off of what few thanks are tossed at my posts. It is up to you to make sure I don't starve.
    Posts
    8,685

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    In what realm is the university of Oklahoma a private organization
    In all honesty, I took it as fact that even public universities can dismiss students at their discretion as a stipulation of accepting you in the first place. I'm probably wrong about that though.
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.

  8. #8
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    8,406
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    In what realm is the university of Oklahoma a private organization
    America's health care, government and courts are largely privatised. It wouldn't surprise me at this point to see state universities added to that list.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 03-10-2015 at 21:13.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  9. #9
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    In a hopeless place with no future
    Posts
    8,646

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    No educational institution/employer, whether public or private should be able to expel/fire people because of their personal beliefs.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  10. #10
    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    I live on the org, feeding off of what few thanks are tossed at my posts. It is up to you to make sure I don't starve.
    Posts
    8,685

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    America's health care, government and courts are largely privatised. It wouldn't surprise me at this point to see state universities added to that list.
    Government is not largely privatized. Courts are not privatized, some prisons are. What trash Brit papers are you reading?
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.

  11. #11
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Swampville
    Posts
    11,559

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    No educational institution/employer, whether public or private should be able to expel/fire people because of their personal beliefs.
    Even when those stated beliefs are threatening to other students? If I was a black student at that university I would feel very unsafe since those frat guys were pretty much endorsing the lynching of black people.
    On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
    Visited:
    A man who casts no shadow has no soul.
    Hvil i fred HoreTore

    Members thankful for this post (2):



  12. #12
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    8,406
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    Government is not largely privatized. Courts are not privatized, some prisons are. What trash Brit papers are you reading?
    I was making a dig at how a lot of your politicians and judges are owned by corporate interests to an extent even more blatant than ours are
    Last edited by Greyblades; 03-10-2015 at 21:30.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  13. #13
    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    I live on the org, feeding off of what few thanks are tossed at my posts. It is up to you to make sure I don't starve.
    Posts
    8,685

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    Fair enough
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.

  14. #14
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    In a hopeless place with no future
    Posts
    8,646

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    Even when those stated beliefs are threatening to other students? If I was a black student at that university I would feel very unsafe since those frat guys were pretty much endorsing the lynching of black people.
    I couldn't make out all the words, but if there were no direct calls for violence, and the language wasn't directed at somebody with the intention of offending/intimidating them, then they were simply individuals expressing personal (if distasteful) beliefs.

    Free speech has to be for everyone, even racists.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  15. #15
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Swampville
    Posts
    11,559

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    You can hang him from a tree
    But he’ll never sign with me
    While not a direct threat its definitely threatening language.

    The 1st Amendment might protect one against legal proceedings, but it does not protect one against all repercussions.

    But looking at the statements from the university, it does seem that they were expelled solely for the racist elements of their speech, which would constitute a violation of their 1st Amendment rights.
    On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
    Visited:
    A man who casts no shadow has no soul.
    Hvil i fred HoreTore

  16. #16
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    In a hopeless place with no future
    Posts
    8,646

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    While not a direct threat its definitely threatening language.

    The 1st Amendment might protect one against legal proceedings, but it does not protect one against all repercussions.

    But looking at the statements from the university, it does seem that they were expelled solely for the racist elements of their speech, which would constitute a violation of their 1st Amendment rights.
    Ah, OK, I didn't hear that, that changes things. I will re-ponder this...
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  17. #17
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Isca
    Posts
    13,477

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    Technically a university is a Guild, Guilds can expel members (students) for bringing the Guild into disrepute. If you dig through the university statutes you will find something to that effect.

    Basically - the university can kick you out for being jerks.

    I'm OK with that
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

    [IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]

    Member thankful for this post:



  18. #18
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Albion
    Posts
    15,924
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    I could have gotten kicked out of mine if I was posting something racist on twitter. Universities do have these policies to protect other students and their reputation.

    This is not only at Universities either, there are the police, the NHS, civil service, and a great many public institutions which have similar policies.
    Last edited by Beskar; 03-11-2015 at 00:21.
    Days since the Apocalypse began
    "We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
    "Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."

  19. #19
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    15,670

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Recently a group of young men affiliated with the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity drunkenly chanted nigger on a bus.
    Will someone explain to me how a public university can expel these students?
    First the racists came for the people of colour, then they came for the ones who stood up for them and then the rest were herded up.

    I think you are quoting the wrong side of the issue here. The racists foster an environment of hate that allows the like of KKK/neo-Nazi's and other hate groups to operate. The university is going head on against that, so they are in fact stopping the 'First they came for xyz'.

    The university has a duty of care to its students and staff. I'm sure that someone stating they will lynch someone using a racist slur falls into one of if not many categories that would be written up as conduct that can get you expelled.

    On top of that any endowments be they federal, state or private may be lost if they let the behaviour continue as it would be seen as providing a haven for racism.

    tl;dr

    Its the 2010's man, no longer do you get told by a racist where to sit on a bus, instead the racist on the bus now gets kicked off. Same applies to university.
    Last edited by Papewaio; 03-11-2015 at 02:25.
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Pape for global overlord!!
    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
    Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

  20. #20
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    11,294

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    Those students, as part of the application to the university, signed an agreement to abide by the rules of the university -- which almost certainly included a statement of zero tolerance for racism.

    They signed the contract and thus and therewith made themselves subject to the policies of the university and any sanctions designed to enforce same.


    So, Strike, your real argument is whether any taxpayer-funded university has a right to restrict free speech that is not a direct incitement to violence even where such free speech is against the beliefs of the vast bulk of the university community and the citizens of the polity that fund it.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  21. #21
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    3,990

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    No educational institution/employer, whether public or private should be able to expel/fire people because of their personal beliefs.
    What about being able to HIRE/ACCEPT people because if their personal beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    Basically - the university can kick you out for being jerks.
    Giving this very reason for kicking out?
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  22. #22
    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    I live on the org, feeding off of what few thanks are tossed at my posts. It is up to you to make sure I don't starve.
    Posts
    8,685

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    So, Strike, your real argument is whether any taxpayer-funded university has a right to restrict free speech that is not a direct incitement to violence even where such free speech is against the beliefs of the vast bulk of the university community and the citizens of the polity that fund it.
    It kind of goes back to the purpose of a university. If the purpose of a university isn't to allow ideas of all quality to battle for the minds of students, well then we need to establish what exactly this new purpose is.

    EDIT: On the other hand this clearly isn't a statement for educational purposes or defense but a private moment among a fraternity, which only exists on campus on the whim of the university in the first place.
    Last edited by a completely inoffensive name; 03-11-2015 at 09:47.
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.

  23. #23
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    If they call for lynching that's a criminal act

    Member thankful for this post:

    Beskar 


  24. #24

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    First they came for the non-nuggets...

    Then they came for the nuggets...

    THE DEATH OF GOD IS THE DEATH OF MAN FUCK N********
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  25. #25
    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Alpine Subtundra
    Posts
    842

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    As long as the university has the right to expel any student with an attitude that the university considers inappropriate, I have no problem with it. Even here, my university can expel whomever it wants, without needing to give an explanation at all.

    In what concerns the moral aspect, each of us has his own creteria, but personally I applaud the university for its decision. The education system needs a bit more discipline and severity, in order to be as efficient as it was 40 years ago.

    A similar incident in Canada:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...ants-1.2890938
    Last edited by Crandar; 03-11-2015 at 15:23.

  26. #26
    Backordered Member CrossLOPER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Brass heart.
    Posts
    2,381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Crandar View Post
    The education system needs a bit more discipline and severity, in order to be as efficient as it was 40 years ago.
    You mean exactly like it was in the video?
    Requesting suggestions for new sig.

    -><- GOGOGO GOGOGO WINLAND WINLAND ALL HAIL TECHNOVIKING!SCHUMACHER!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    WHY AM I NOT BEING PAID FOR THIS???

  27. #27
    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    OKRAHOMER
    Posts
    7,424

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    School code of conduct. Just like a workplace has a code of conduct. And state and federal funds may be tied to those codes of conduct. May not like it, but it is what it is.

    The ringleaders were the ones expelled, which leads me to believe this was probably a chant that people were not all doing voluntarily. I would have reported it as well if I was forced to participate. It is obviously an old, old chant

    Their lives have not been ruined by the expulsion. Their lives have been ruined by having a distinctly lacking sense of self preservation in the digital age. A bus full of people is not the place to have a reasonable expectation of privacy. Maybe they can do a sitcom with alec Baldwin and Mel Gibson.

    What does, however, appall me are the number of liberal commenters on HuffPo articles who want the kids charged with hate crimes. Now that is effing stupid
    Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!

    Members thankful for this post (4):



  28. #28
    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Alpine Subtundra
    Posts
    842

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    Quote Originally Posted by CrossLOPER View Post
    You mean exactly like it was in the video?
    Sorry, I didn't make myself clear; I was speaking about our education system, not that of America, and 40 years ago, I doubt anybody had ever seen a black person, so racism against blacks was inexistent.
    On the other hand, going to church every Sunday was mandatory...

  29. #29

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    I doubt anybody had ever seen a black person, so racism against blacks was inexistent.
    Quite the contrary, interestingly.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  30. #30

    Default Re: First they Came For The Racists

    Interesting thought experiment:

    Imagine a serious racist who sees all "Negroes" as subhuman.

    Now what happens if that person has a bestiality fetish?

    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO