Swedish international politics take another blow...

[Kadagar_AV]

Perhaps the US or Norwegian governments have something to do with it?

You mean they also have oil? Sure, but that has nothing to do with the fact that we are waving our middle finger around... By this rate Norway will be the only country to do business with soon.

[Montmorency]

Just always keep in mind that the grandstanding of politicians should not be taken at face value. Grandstanding is their job, and connections run deep.

For example, what's the "sense" in China or Turkey or whatever publicly insulting European governments over museums, or conferences, or other projects they apparently have no business or pertinence with?

These sorts of messages can have very complex underpinnings with both national and international outlooks.

Or, yeah, they could just be dumb. On the other hand, it's more useful to overestimate politicians by assuming they have some calculations behind many of their actions, then to underestimate by just assuming they're fools.

In the end, we should go beyond both and see that politicians, like anyone else, can take gambles that seem well-founded, but may not pay off for a number of reasons.

But keep the above in mind. Even the Tea Party (above municipal level) isn't just doing the things they do because 'they feel like it'.

[Kadagar_AV]

Just always keep in mind that the grandstanding of politicians should not be taken at face value. Grandstanding is their job, and connections run deep.

For example, what's the "sense" in China or Turkey or whatever publicly insulting European governments over museums, or conferences, or other projects they apparently have no business or pertinence with?

These sorts of messages can have very complex underpinnings with both national and international outlooks.

Or, yeah, they could just be dumb. On the other hand, it's more useful to overestimate politicians by assuming they have some calculations behind many of their actions, then to underestimate by just assuming they're fools.

In the end, we should go beyond both and see that politicians, like anyone else, can take gambles that seem well-founded, but may not pay off for a number of reasons.

But keep the above in mind. Even the Tea Party (above municipal level) isn't just doing the things they do because 'they feel like it'.

Well... Ambassadors are leaving the country, we are yelled at from all over, and the majority population think this was an effin stupid move... I WISH to think that the socialistic government have some sort of "grand scheme", but in this case they just lack sensitivity to other cultures.

It's like: "Who needs other cultures when they are WRONG".


You can only yell and point your finger at so many people, before the other kids don't want to play with you on the school yard.

[Fragony]

Sweden is the country ruled by the Stephord Wives. Swedes aren't crazy and they know that the Stephord wives are ruining everything. Sweden is still eally nice place. It still is a really nice place but not in the cities. Fellow orger Swedish-Fish lashed out really hard at me but he moved to America, he was furious when he learned how things really are, and how unreasonable politicians are. In a pm conversation he said he thought I was just a racist and that he simply didn't know how bad it is. No offence taken.

@Swedish leftists, got something to prove? Nice testlab you have there

[Ironside]

Well... Ambassadors are leaving the country, we are yelled at from all over, and the majority population think this was an effin stupid move... I WISH to think that the socialistic government have some sort of "grand scheme", but in this case they just lack sensitivity to other cultures.

It's like: "Who needs other cultures when they are WRONG".


You can only yell and point your finger at so many people, before the other kids don't want to play with you on the school yard.

The plan is to bring those issues up on the international agenda, even if it pisses some nations off. Netanyahu did just declare the two state solution dead (and somehow I don't think that was to make Palestinians Israeli citizens) and the Islamic world are progressing very, very slowly on human rights issues.

[Fragony]

Why would a fucked country like Sweden have the right on not shutting the fuck when it comes to international policies of countries that don't beg to be overrun by hostiles.

[Kralizec]

She's right on both issues.
Granted, it's commonplace to stay quite on such things to preserve trade relations with nasty people who feel they have a god-given right to opress others and who are quite sensitive (not to say, insecure) about it. But why, really? It's not as if Sweden is the only country that needs diplomatic cooperation with other countries. The Arab countries have need of the same, and maybe it's time they learn to suck it up.

Same applies to Israel. Depriving millions of people of international recognition, a functioning state and the territory they would need to establish one is not acceptable behaviour. A government which categorically rules out a Palestinian state and actively tries to prevent one deserves no diplomatic consideration for its point of view.

[rvg]

He lied. I knew he lied and he knew I lied. That was diplomacy.

[Fragony]

She's right on both issues.
Granted, it's commonplace to stay quite on such things to preserve trade relations with nasty people who feel they have a god-given right to opress others and who are quite sensitive (not to say, insecure) about it. But why, really? It's not as if Sweden is the only country that needs diplomatic cooperation with other countries. The Arab countries have need of the same, and maybe it's time they learn to suck it up.

Same applies to Israel. Depriving millions of people of international recognition, a functioning state and the territory they would need to establish one is not acceptable behaviour. A government which categorically rules out a Palestinian state and actively tries to prevent one deserves no diplomatic consideration for its point of view.

What makes you think Palestinans want a state, it's the worst thing that could ever happen to them. They will become a target of much more radical forces.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The plan is to bring those issues up on the international agenda, even if it pisses some nations off. Netanyahu did just declare the two state solution dead (and somehow I don't think that was to make Palestinians Israeli citizens) and the Islamic world are progressing very, very slowly on human rights issues.

To which the response is "oh no, a country like Sweden think's we're nasty".

As far as I'm aware Sweden exports nothing the Saudis or Israelis want, unless you're a Leftist Israeli wanting an IKEA sofa.

So Kad has a point - all this has done is made things harder for Swedes, which is the worst possible outsome for any government - to disadvantage it's own people.

[Kralizec]

If Sweden didn't export anything of value to Israel or Saudi Arabia, that would be even more reason against sugar coating their words.

AFAIK Sweden had a fairly significant arms deal with Saudi Arabia going on, that they decided to cancel in the aftermath of this diplomatic row (a word I'm using generously here; recalling your ambassador "for consultation" doesn't mean much in the end). The deal was apparently controversial in Sweden and probably would have been cancelled anyway, so I'm guessing that the actual damage is small.