Swedish international politics take another blow...

**Ironside** · 03-19-2015, 09:02

Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Well... Ambassadors are leaving the country, we are yelled at from all over, and the majority population think this was an effin stupid move... I WISH to think that the socialistic government have some sort of "grand scheme", but in this case they just lack sensitivity to other cultures.

It's like: "Who needs other cultures when they are WRONG".

You can only yell and point your finger at so many people, before the other kids don't want to play with you on the school yard.

The plan is to bring those issues up on the international agenda, even if it pisses some nations off. Netanyahu did just declare the two state solution dead (and somehow I don't think that was to make Palestinians Israeli citizens) and the Islamic world are progressing very, very slowly on human rights issues.

**Fragony** · 03-19-2015, 10:03

Why would a fucked country like Sweden have the right on not shutting the fuck when it comes to international policies of countries that don't beg to be overrun by hostiles.

**Kralizec** · 03-19-2015, 14:19

She's right on both issues.
Granted, it's commonplace to stay quite on such things to preserve trade relations with nasty people who feel they have a god-given right to opress others and who are quite sensitive (not to say, insecure) about it. But why, really? It's not as if Sweden is the only country that needs diplomatic cooperation with other countries. The Arab countries have need of the same, and maybe it's time they learn to suck it up.

Same applies to Israel. Depriving millions of people of international recognition, a functioning state and the territory they would need to establish one is not acceptable behaviour. A government which categorically rules out a Palestinian state and actively tries to prevent one deserves no diplomatic consideration for its point of view.

**rvg** · 03-19-2015, 14:51

He lied. I knew he lied and he knew I lied. That was diplomacy.

**Fragony** · 03-19-2015, 17:14

Originally Posted by Kralizec

She's right on both issues.
Granted, it's commonplace to stay quite on such things to preserve trade relations with nasty people who feel they have a god-given right to opress others and who are quite sensitive (not to say, insecure) about it. But why, really? It's not as if Sweden is the only country that needs diplomatic cooperation with other countries. The Arab countries have need of the same, and maybe it's time they learn to suck it up.

Same applies to Israel. Depriving millions of people of international recognition, a functioning state and the territory they would need to establish one is not acceptable behaviour. A government which categorically rules out a Palestinian state and actively tries to prevent one deserves no diplomatic consideration for its point of view.

What makes you think Palestinans want a state, it's the worst thing that could ever happen to them. They will become a target of much more radical forces.

**Kralizec** · 03-19-2015, 18:07

Originally Posted by Fragony

What makes you think Palestinans want a state,

In no particular order:

- Common sense
- Statements by their politicians
- Their request to be recognised as a state by the UN general assembly
- Opinion polls in Gaza and the west bank, indicating that the population approves of this move

**Fragony** · 03-19-2015, 19:30

Originally Posted by Kralizec

In no particular order:

- Common sense
- Statements by their politicians
- Their request to be recognised as a state by the UN general assembly
- Opinion polls in Gaza and the west bank, indicating that the population approves of this move

It doesn't matter what ordinary Palestinians want, they are a playball in a ideological conflict between much bigger powers. That really sucks for them and I honestly feel sorry for them, but we can't help them. The second a Palestinian staye becomes reality it will become a target itselve, there are much more radical powers than Hamas to consider. Things can't be fixed at the moment, it will only make things worse, more innocent people will die.

**Kadagar_AV** · 03-19-2015, 20:12

Saudi Arabia, as an example, today decided to not allow further business visas from Sweden...

So what PVC says is rather spot on, the government should not actively work to make it HARDER for Swedes to do business around the world.

The Saudi weapons deal we just decided to not renew was what started this whole thing... Our foreign ministers complete lack of cultural sensitivity was what had this whole thing explode in our faces...

3½ years to go with a socialist government... 3½ years to go... I wonder how much of Sweden will remain afterwards, as todays swedish socialists are all about feminism, everyones equal value, yadda yadda empty words...

I seriously start to think nothing short of a revolution will be able to save this nation. The media is even self admittedly campaigning for multiculturalist chaos these days, so the random Joe worker really has very little idea with what is actually going on... But even he slowly start to see that his grandmother in a retirement home is being mistreated, his son comes home from school without his iphone and with very little knowledge learnt, his salary no longer covers what would have been natural before...

I am seriously worried about Sweden, enough to having had me actively start working politically. The nation needs saving, but I am afraid it's already to late :(

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 03-19-2015, 18:11

Originally Posted by Ironside

The plan is to bring those issues up on the international agenda, even if it pisses some nations off. Netanyahu did just declare the two state solution dead (and somehow I don't think that was to make Palestinians Israeli citizens) and the Islamic world are progressing very, very slowly on human rights issues.

To which the response is "oh no, a country like Sweden think's we're nasty".

As far as I'm aware Sweden exports nothing the Saudis or Israelis want, unless you're a Leftist Israeli wanting an IKEA sofa.

So Kad has a point - all this has done is made things harder for Swedes, which is the worst possible outsome for any government - to disadvantage it's own people.

**Kralizec** · 03-19-2015, 18:34

If Sweden didn't export anything of value to Israel or Saudi Arabia, that would be even more reason against sugar coating their words.

AFAIK Sweden had a fairly significant arms deal with Saudi Arabia going on, that they decided to cancel in the aftermath of this diplomatic row (a word I'm using generously here; recalling your ambassador "for consultation" doesn't mean much in the end). The deal was apparently controversial in Sweden and probably would have been cancelled anyway, so I'm guessing that the actual damage is small.