If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public school

[Strike For The South]

I am a firm believer that people need to be protected from themselves sometimes. This is one of those times

[Seamus Fermanagh]

But there is a chance that your child will die or become autistic should they take the vaccine!

Actually, I think the number of unvaccinated children harmed by perfectly preventable diseases exceeds the number who might die of an allergic reaction to taking the vaccine -- and the autism thing has ZERO statistically valid support -- but some folks try not to let themselves get confused by pesky facts.

[a completely inoffensive name]

This subject makes me really mad, so I am just going to thank the OP and leave it at that.

[HoreTore]

But there is a chance that your child will die or become autistic should they take the vaccine!

Relevant link explaining how vaccines causes autism.

Anyway, the child should not be banned from school. Rather, we should do what we do with that kooky Christian sect who refuses blood transfers - temporarily remove custody from the parents, give it to the state, inject vacines, hand kids back to parents.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Nope. I believe that people have a right to control what is forcibly injected into their bodies. Do I take vaccination? Oh heck yea, for certain illnesses you might be crazy not to. Should the uneducated public be voting on what is forced on other people? Hell no.

An intelligent and decent parent vaccinates their children. There is no link between vaccination and autism. Unvaccinated children do not often enough become horribly I'll and die to mandate this, though. We are talking here about mandating an HPV vaccination for people.... Not something to prevent hemmorhagic fever. It always comes back to force. Are you guys that completely out of tricks?

[ICantSpellDawg]

Considering HPV is rampant in the US, can cause Cervical Cancer, and is one of the few STDs that a condom is less effective against, I'd say mandating that particular vaccination would be a great boon for public health. There are cities in America where as many as 1/4 of sexually active women have HPV. The stats are probably similar for dudes, but because of certain annual medical procedures that men don't have to worry about the stats are much more reliable for women. So I wouldn't use that as an example, its actually a pretty big problem.

Really that's kind of the point, in the end. This isn't about the health of the children that aren't being vaccinated, its about the children around them. Unvaccinated kids give viruses a place to hang out and mutate and come into contact with other people over time. Total and wide-spread vaccination can make some diseases completely extinct, but a few stubborn fools can ruin it for everyone.

"We demand to inject you - for the greater good."

[HoreTore]

Considering HPV is rampant in the US, can cause Cervical Cancer, and is one of the few STDs that a condom is less effective against, I'd say mandating that particular vaccination would be a great boon for public health. There are cities in America where as many as 1/4 of sexually active women have HPV. The stats are probably similar for dudes, but because of certain annual medical procedures that men don't have to worry about the stats are much more reliable for women. So I wouldn't use that as an example, its actually a pretty big problem.

Really that's kind of the point, in the end. This isn't about the health of the children that aren't being vaccinated, its about the children around them. Unvaccinated kids give viruses a place to hang out and mutate and come into contact with other people over time. Total and wide-spread vaccination can make some diseases completely extinct, but a few stubborn fools can ruin it for everyone.

One in four? Nah man, it's more like 3 in 4. HPV is one of those viruses we 'all' have - except nuns. It doesn't really affect us, apart from getting stuff to grow inside bewbs.

"We demand to inject you - for the greater good."

We will also take your baby away if you refuse to give it nutrition.

I see no difference.

[Fragony]

Absolutily agree.

[ICantSpellDawg]

BTW, this is the kind of moronic consensus I vote for representatives to go to Congress to block.

[ICantSpellDawg]

A child needs food to live. If you deprive it of food you are unduly endangering your child.

It doesn't need vaccines. Doesn't mean you shouldn't get your kids vaccinated.

[HoreTore]

A child needs food to live. If you deprive it of food you are unduly endangering your child.

It doesn't need vaccines. Doesn't mean you shouldn't get your kids vaccinated.

Here's the thing; a child does need vaccines in order to survive. Just like they need food to survive.

Deprive them of either, and yes, you are in danger of killing your offspring.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Here's the thing; a child does need vaccines in order to survive. Just like they need food to survive.

Deprive them of either, and yes, you are in danger of killing your offspring.

Nonsense. What you've just said is untrue.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I agree that parents who don't do the research about vaccines are possibly doing their children a disservice. But there are risks to vaccines. More for some than others. More for certain children than others. People should never be forced to be vaccinated against their will.

They should be encouraged to do the due diligence and come to the correct conclusion. They should be informed by medical professionals what that conclusion is most likely to be. If thr vaccination is in the public interest, it can even be made affordable or free. But you lose me at compulsion with penalties

[HoreTore]

Nonsense. What you've just said is untrue.

Yeah, go ahead and ask the 19th century mother of 9 who watched two of her offspring reach adulthood what she thinks of it.

Or go to Africa.

I agree that parents who don't do the research about vaccines are possibly doing their children a disservice. But there are risks to vaccines. More for some than others. People should never be forced to be vaccinated against their will.

Again, I refer you to my previously posted link.

There's risk involved in eating as well. Huge risk, in fact. You can get a ton of diseases from eating. I say we stop doing it.


Any 18-year old or above airhead should be free to be as stupid as they want with their own bodies. They do not, however, have the right to be equally stupid with the bodies of other individuals. Having managed to squirt some semen in the correct place at one point in time does not make you the master of life and death.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Yeah, go ahead and ask the 19th century mother of 9 who watched two of her offspring reach adulthood what she thinks of it.

Or go to Africa.



Again, I refer you to my previously posted link.

There's risk involved in eating as well. Huge risk, in fact. You can get a ton of diseases from eating. I say we stop doing it.

Vaccines have inarguably been beneficial to humanity. Advancements in sanitation and nutrition have contributed to the reduction of child mortality to a much greater extent than vaccines, however.

You are wrong to support the forcible injection of people against their will. You would be right to strongly encourage vaccination.

[HoreTore]

Vaccines have inarguably been beneficial to humanity. Nutritional advancements have arguably contributed to the reduction of child mortality to a much greater extent than vaccines, however.

You are wrong to support the forcible injection of people against their will. You would be right to strongly encourage vaccination.

Infant mortality, no. Child mortality, yes.

I support the forcible injection of food, water, education, vaccines, blood transfusions and probably a few others I forget about. I am indeed Hitler in disguise.

[Pannonian]

Vaccines have inarguably been beneficial to humanity. Nutritional advancements have arguably contributed to the reduction of child mortality to a much greater extent than vaccines, however.

QE1 nearly died from a disease that has now been eradicated from the wild thanks to vaccination programmes. Said disease is probably the biggest killer in history. And that's just one of a number of lethal diseases that vaccination treats.

[HoreTore]

QE1 nearly died from a disease that has now been eradicated from the wild thanks to vaccination programmes. Said disease is probably the biggest killer in history. And that's just one of a number of lethal diseases that vaccination treats.

George Washington as well, IIRC.

Obviously a poorly fed man.

[Beskar]

I am required to take far more vaccination injections and a greater variety than the general public due to working in health/hospitals. If I didn't, I would be a total idiot and would be negligence on part of myself and my employers.

Vaccinations work and do a ton of good, especially for a lot of dreadful diseases. The 'moronic' solution would not to take vaccines so when there is a need for mass-scale vaccination, it should be compulsory. As for HPV, don't get started on the idiocy where those oppose assume their children would never have sexual contact in their lives.

You make it seem like we are staring down the abyss because some parents are making controversial decisions about their children's healthcare.

Break-down of Herd immunity is actually evident with the resurgence of many illnesses, because of highly misinformed parents who don't know what is for the best.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I am required to take far more vaccination injections and a greater variety than the general public due to working in health/hospitals. If I didn't, I would be a total idiot and would be negligence on part of myself and my employers.

Vaccinations work and do a ton of good, especially for a lot of dreadful diseases. The 'moronic' solution would not to take vaccines so when there is a need for mass-scale vaccination, it should be compulsory. As for HPV, don't get started on the idiocy where those oppose assume their children would never have sexual contact in their lives.

I'm not 100% against vaccinations for certain types of employment, mostly because that employment isn't compelled. For nearly every american, public education is compelled. You effectively have no choice unless you are wealthy enough to put your kids in private school.

[ICantSpellDawg]

You guys hate free action almost as a rule. Rates of acute disease have dropped dramatically over the past 100 years. You make it seem like we are staring down the abyss because some parents are making controversial decisions about their children's healthcare. The second someone doesn't listen to your arguments, the world is on the brink and they must be forced to comply. Your positions are ludicrous and your political opinions are dangerous and abusive of the rights of others.

[HoreTore]

You guys hate free action almost as a rule. Rates of acute disease have dropped dramatically over the past 100 years. You make it seem like we are staring down the abyss because some parents are making controversial decisions about their children's healthcare. The second someone doesn't listen to your arguments, the world is on the brink and they must be forced. Your positions are ludicrous and your political opinions are dangerous and abusive.

Yes, I have already said I'm Hitler in disguise.

The thing is, you're not arguing in favour of an individuals right to choose for themselves. You are arguing in favour of an individuals right to force others to do as they want.

I do not recognize that right. The cost for the individual choosing is nil. The cost for the individual who is forced to accept the choice is, ultimately, death.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Yes, I have already said I'm Hitler in disguise.

The thing is, you're not arguing in favour of an individuals right to choose for themselves. You are arguing in favour of an individuals right to force others to do as they want.

I do not recognize that right. The cost for the individual choosing is nil. The cost for the individual who is forced to accept the choice is, ultimately, death.

Never said anything about Hitler.

Its just that nearly every argument you co e up with includes compulsion of others actions

[HoreTore]

Never said anything about Hitler.

Its just that nearly every argument you co e up with includes compulsion of others actions

Just like I will force people to educate their kids.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Are you trying to convince me that vaccines are a great advancement in medical science. I'm convinced

Are you trying to convince me that it is of the utmost importance to FORCE other peoples children to get vaccinated? No, I do not accept

[HoreTore]

Are you trying to convince me that vaccines are a great advancement in medical science. I'm convinced

Are you trying to convince me that it is of the utmost importance to FORCE other peoples children to get vaccinated? No, I do not accept

But somehow, you fully support peoples 'right' to FORCE me not to get vaccinated.

How on earth can other people be given the right to make decisions that will ultimately kill me?

[ICantSpellDawg]

But somehow, you fully support peoples 'right' to FORCE me not to get vaccinated.

What? Although you are able to be vaccinated, thus reducing the likelihood that you will not contract disease x - the decision of another not to get vaccinated is the equivalent of FORCING you not to get vaccinated?

My issue with modern political arguments is that they are not really arguments for good ideas - they are arguments for the forcible compulsion of those good ideas on others.

This is exacly why the GOP voters have sent defensive linemen into Congress. We need to ensure that you go nowhere with the ball.

Focus your energy on helpful encouragement and the spread of good ideas through fair play and you will have a supporter.

[HoreTore]

What?

You want to give my parents the right to force me not to get vaccinated.

I would rather give the state the right to force me to get vaccinated.

[Papewaio]

Statistics from the recent Welsh measles outbreak:
"In the outbreak children who were unvaccinated had a chance of catching measles of around 1 in 18 (6,812/371), children who were partly vaccinated had a chance of catching measles of around 1 in 750 (14,219/19) and children who were fully vaccinated had a chance of catching measles of around 1 in 2,200 (68,825/31). This shows that 2 doses of MMR were over 99% effective in protecting against measles and 1 dose of MMR was over 97% effective in protecting against measles."

http://www.wales.nhs.uk/sitesplus/do...T%20REPORT.doc

1400 measles notifications, 88 people were hospitalized and one died.

So the 95% number is the wrong way round and even with modern medicine and fast responses in a first world country a relatively small outbreak can be fatal.

[Fisherking]

Pap, I am not anti-vaccine. What I am is pro-liberty. If a person wishes to opt out they should have the right to do so. I did not post a link because the cited material could be classed as ant-vaccine and I could not locate the cited CDC figures for verification.

But in the defense of those who would opt out, after the government assuring us that those not wishing to be vaccinated are all just crazies and all the vaccines are safe, they did pass a little piece of legislation, The National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986. The act exempt pharmaceutical manufactures and the healthcare industry from damage claims for vaccine related conditions. Further, the FDA, CDC and vaccine makers openly state that often the number of human subjects used in pre-licensing studies are too small to detect rarer adverse events, making post-marketing surveillance of new vaccines a de facto scientific experiment. In this regard, the ethical principle of informed consent to vaccination attains even greater importance


The remedy for injury is to sue the federal government in federal court before a federal judge, and that can take years once you have received standing to sue, and after you prove your case the government then has a second court adjudicate the compensation.

Of the cases won in court two out of three still receive no compensation. But even after all of those high hurdles have been cleared there has been approximately $3 billion awarded. Obviously there is real and genuine reason for concern.

The law also is to provide parents with vaccine benefit and risk information before their children are vaccinated, but I have been unable to find any real data or analyses published by the government or anyone else other than anti-vaccine sites.

But perhaps you can do better.

If I recall correctly, when my children were vaccinated minutes before the procedure I was handed a paper about 3 inches wide and 3 and a half feet long, printed on both sides in print so fine a magnifying glass was required to read it, which may have contained that information, but not in any usable form.

If that is not enough to raise a healthy skepticism in most everyone, I don’t know what would.